Automatic Press

[WeaverScreenPrinting]

So I work in the family screen printing business started by my grandfather in the 70s.  We were the top screen printer in town for years but we're falling behind lately due to lack of automatic press. My father is currently looking at SE-88-EC Sabre 6/8 6 Color/8 Station Automatic Press It's a huge investment of course and we want to pick the right press for us.  Is this a good first automatic?

[GraphicDisorder]

How large are your manual press(es) currently? 

When considering your first auto my main advice is buy the largest press you can swing for, often people (myself included) will buy a press they thought would be big enough and find its not very quickly.  I would go for at least a 8/10 over a 6/8.  Of course if you are only printing 1/2/3 color shirts that would change my advice somewhat, but not much as you can gang up jobs in a single set up.  Workhorse makes fine products and nothing to be scared of there. 

[mk162]

first off...just about anything is better than manual...

if you are a little gunshy about new, you can always look at used late 90's gauntlets...great presses for not a lot of dough.

I've heard awesome things about that press and a few people here do run them, so you can get their take.

[Gilligan]

I have a Sabre and I'm pretty pleased with it.

Flashback will allow you to retain use of all of your heads for screen printing vs flashing and cool down (2 heads lost typically).

Everyone says it will slow you down too much.  So far we really haven't had that issue.  Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss it in more detail.

[Binkspot]

What graphic said, as much as you can as far as heads.

Don't over look the big picture in the excitement of the new press. There are many expences people tend to not see when making this move, ones that can nickel and dime you to death. Add expences like instal, shipping, compressor, chiller, electrical, plumbing, learning curve, screens, etc.

[kingscreen]

We have a Sabre and absolutely love it.  We spent months going back and forth between all the options and ultimate felt Sabre was the best press for the money. Also, as Gilligan stated, Flashback allows flashing without the loss of the print head(s).

[GraphicDisorder]

Binkspot brings up good point as well, one thing I was ready for but not ready for in full was the expenses we incurred during first install of the first press.  I knew it would be expensive but it was pretty staggering.  I believe all in with changing some electrical, gas lines, renting of forklift, overhead lift, and paying the labor to do all that and the install of the press/compressor/chiller/flashes we were around 10k if memory serves me. Life goes on and its worth every dime. Don't worry yourself with the expense though, it's my belief unless your a terrible business person or a dead shop there is no way a Auto wont make sense.  So over all jump in!

[dirkdiggler]

Binkspot brings up good point as well, one thing I was ready for but not ready for in full was the expenses we incurred during first install of the first press.  I knew it would be expensive but it was pretty staggering.  I believe all in with changing some electrical, gas lines, renting of forklift, overhead lift, and paying the labor to do all that and the install of the press/compressor/chiller/flashes we were around 10k if memory serves me. Life goes on and its worth every dime. Don't worry yourself with the expense though, it's my belief unless your a terrible business person or a dead shop there is no way a Auto wont make sense.  So over all jump in!

agreed!

[3Deep]

I know you ask was the press your looking at a good first press, that answer will only be answered here by people that own that press, so look forward to getting a ton of get this press and that press.  Now the advice your going to get which I read in a few post is going to be invaluable to you because most of us have been where you are now, so I would hang to that no matter what press you decide to get.  My best advice to you would be (answer these question to yourself first) #1 I'm looking to produce faster, #2 I,m needing a larger print, #3 I'm looking for a better quality print than I doing now and consistency,#3 Do we need more colors,#4 What equipment do we have now that will keep up with an automatic press ie dryer,exposure unit, screens, even down to your emulsion coater#5 Ease of setup.  You can buy a cheaper used auto true enough then there comes all the the other extra some I mention already and then there the new one air compressor, air dryer electric hook up air lines etc.  So with that no matter what brand you get everything above will have to be addressed, sorry I don't know a thing about the press you ask about, but if you all are pretty much set on that press pm some of the guys that have this brand of press and they will give you the better anwsers your looking for...good luck

darryl

[ScreenPrinter123]

In addition to the above posts.... Go see whatever make and model in person running during real production (in fact, go see more than one in person) -- get the pros and cons from the people actually running it.  Not having had experience with one, you won't really know the drawbacks and see the pluses until you see it in person for yourself and ask questions to the press operator/owner -- trade shows are a good start, but see it running for real in person for someone in the business already.  Typically, companies like workhorse will tell you where the nearest one is to you and you may want to see about paying a visit if the shop will let you go in.

I will say this -- when we went from manual to Workhorse's pneumatic Freedom Press we were amazed at how much faster it was.  After 2 weeks you'll be wanting to go faster...etc -- which is why I'd recommend getting extra heads and not doing flash backs, as a previous owner of a freedom with flashbacks (there are more drawbacks than just slowing down production with them too).  If back log is your issue, keep in mind how quick the press is moving (indexing, going up and down, etc. for example) -- those seconds add up quickly. 

[jvanick]

If you plan on running an auto with just one person, i wouldn't worry too much about the slowness of the flashback.

That being said tho... go with thr biggest you can afford.  A great overlooked reason by first auto purchasers is with a 8 or 10 color press you can leave botb the front and back of a print set up and not have to re setup a job if you screw a few shirts up.

Also, be prepared no matter what presd you end up buying to learn how to print all over again.

[GraphicDisorder]

In addition to the above posts.... Go see whatever make and model in person running during real production (in fact, go see more than one in person) -- get the pros and cons from the people actually running it.  Not having had experience with one, you won't really know the drawbacks and see the pluses until you see it in person for yourself and ask questions to the press operator/owner -- trade shows are a good start, but see it running for real in person for someone in the business already.  Typically, companies like workhorse will tell you where the nearest one is to you and you may want to see about paying a visit if the shop will let you go in.

I will say this -- when we went from manual to Workhorse's pneumatic Freedom Press we were amazed at how much faster it was.  After 2 weeks you'll be wanting to go faster...etc -- which is why I'd recommend getting extra heads and not doing flash backs, as a previous owner of a freedom with flashbacks (there are more drawbacks than just slowing down production with them too).  If back log is your issue, keep in mind how quick the press is moving (indexing, going up and down, etc. for example) -- those seconds add up quickly.

This!  Definitely go see one run at least.  Talk to a owner in person. Then at least see a couple competitors just to make sure your getting what you want.  It's like buying a car, take a couple for a spin. Enjoy the process most of us would probably suggest getting your first auto is a big highlight to your shops quality of life.

[Gilligan]

My shop is open to a visit from anyone (standing room only ).

Flashbacks are an interesting topic... Going in I saw all of the above, ppl (I highly respect) saying it will be too slow and others saying it's not that bad.  In the end I was stubborn and got one... We love it.

[CSPGarrett]

I will second the thought on expenses besides the press. You may or may budget enough, but our expenses were a lot greater than first quoted or thought of.  Examples include,

Compressor -  $2400.00
Chiller - $999.99
Electric Drop and Compressor ElectricHookup - $3700.00
Compressor Hookup - $750.00
Screens - About $500+
Permit for Electric - $250

I know I am missing somethings in there but I basically handed over our card and said f&$K it, it has to be done and the press is already sitting at our receiving dock so no looking back.  If you don't take risk you will never learn or grow.

[blue moon]

So I work in the family screen printing business started by my grandfather in the 70s.  We were the top screen printer in town for years but we're falling behind lately due to lack of automatic press. My father is currently looking at SE-88-EC Sabre 6/8 6 Color/8 Station Automatic Press It's a huge investment of course and we want to pick the right press for us.  Is this a good first automatic?

it is also possible that some training would give you as big of a jump, or more, for far less money. Many things have changed since your grandfather opened the store and, while I am certain you kept with most, there are probably some that would improve your ability to get ahead of the curve.

Many things that are considered cutting edge today can be done on the manual press. Think discharge, silicone, oversized prints, even simulated process printing. Automatic will increase your production rate and give you better consistency (in some cases), but good manual printing can be very impressive. If I was in your shoes, I'd start with the art department. Make sure you have somebody capable of designing the type of work you'd like to print. Then learn how to make it happen on the press. Printing gels, foil, discharge and all that jazz is fundamentally the same no matter the press. Correct stencils (frame, mesh, film, emulsion and exposure), inks, printing technique and curing are required and anything you learn on the manual will help later on the auto. If in doubt, go check the "what have you printed lately" thread and see the images from Russia done on a manual press. That work is better than what 90% of us can do!

pierre