Split from Spyder CTS, any users on this board?

[IntegrityShirts]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

[Frog]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

For the most part, he has posted as an artist/sepper or TSB partner rather than as another M&R employee or representative (who also frequent the board). Nonetheless, a little more disclosure could only help.

[ZooCity]

I agree, just require members to disclose in your signature if you are paid by a mfg in any way.   Solves all this pretty handily.

[Gilligan]

I don't think you guys are seeing the "problem" that I had.  It had NOTHING to do with the information presented.  I only called out that SINGLE one line.

Fact is nothing I said is not true.  He's job (current) COMPLETELY depends on sales of M&R DTS machines.  Can anyone tell me that as an installer of M&R DTS machines that this isn't true?!  Would Rich move him to another department?  Probably, all I said was that he "will have to find something else to do."  This is true... I never said he would be on the streets.  I'm just saying it would be something else.

Does anyone want to change their roles involuntarily from what they are doing now?  I didn't thinks so, and I'm sure Dan doesn't either.

SO, again his "job depends on those sales regardless if you make a commission or not."  This is a fact of the matter.

I'm not suggesting Dan is a terrible person or that he shouldn't comment or that he is doing anything wrong with any of the rest of what he's talking about.  I'm just suggesting that he refrain from disingenuous statements like what he said.  When it comes down to it, his money is DIRECTLY related to the sales of one over the other.

Clearly even the most level headed people on this forum even suggest that there is a disclaimer to manufacture's employees.  As you said, most people are proud of the products they represent and should be proud to say it in their signature as well.

This was never meant to be such a drawn out "fight" and I'm frankly quite surprised that it has had to go so far to take on a thread of it's own and having the other two owners of the forum chiming in.  To me, it should have been pretty quickly and easily resolved... but as Dan does (love him or hate him) he had to push back.

[244]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

What is required of an M&R when posting on this site is to identify themselves as who they are. There cannot be any hiding under fake names or alias without people knowing who they are. Dan is definitely not hiding himself and quite honestly think he is proud of what he does for a living. I do not want to add to this post as it already has lost any knowledge value. I will add Dan doesn't have to worry about a job installing our product. We are adding an additional 10 tech's this quarter. For those counting that will be a total of 63 M&R factory tech's.

[Gilligan]

[IntegrityShirts]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

What is required of an M&R when posting on this site is to identify themselves as who they are. There cannot be any hiding under fake names or alias without people knowing who they are. Dan is definitely not hiding himself and quite honestly think he is proud of what he does for a living. I do not want to add to this post as it already has lost any knowledge value. I will add Dan doesn't have to worry about a job installing our product. We are adding an additional 10 tech's this quarter. For those counting that will be a total of 63 M&R factory tech's.

I have no doubt he is proud of what he does. All I'm saying is him weighing in on the conversation about Spyder CTS users with a list of things to consider when buying a CTS and saying he has no commission to make off sales WITHOUT at least mentioning he installs the M&R units is a little off-balance.  Hell, at least Sonny blatantly plugs Xenon every chance he gets so EVERYONE KNOWS who he works for haha.

I'd rather see useful information posted as opposed to a laundry list of things to consider without mention of which hardware achieves the items on that list.  We have a good group of people here that have valid and real world opinions of CTS units and it would be nice to hear from them. I honestly feel like we are shielded here at TSB from some of the downsides of these units because owners see WHO is watching and they don't want to be honest.

[Gilligan]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

What is required of an M&R when posting on this site is to identify themselves as who they are. There cannot be any hiding under fake names or alias without people knowing who they are. Dan is definitely not hiding himself and quite honestly think he is proud of what he does for a living. I do not want to add to this post as it already has lost any knowledge value. I will add Dan doesn't have to worry about a job installing our product. We are adding an additional 10 tech's this quarter. For those counting that will be a total of 63 M&R factory tech's.

I have no doubt he is proud of what he does. All I'm saying is him weighing in on the conversation about Spyder CTS users with a list of things to consider when buying a CTS and saying he has no commission to make off sales WITHOUT at least mentioning he installs the M&R units is a little off-balance.  Hell, at least Sonny blatantly plugs Xenon every chance he gets so EVERYONE KNOWS who he works for haha.

I'd rather see useful information posted as opposed to a laundry list of things to consider without mention of which hardware achieves the items on that list.  We have a good group of people here that have valid and real world opinions of CTS units and it would be nice to hear from them. I honestly feel like we are shielded here at TSB from some of the downsides of these units because owners see WHO is watching and they don't want to be honest.

I sometimes get that feeling, more so I think that they fear drama so much that there can not be anything slightly negative said.  Especially since some people are such fan boys THEY are the ones that cause all sorts of drama if someone even hints at something not being perfect about their favorite brand.

Not everyone is perfect, doesn't make them bad... but let people know the truth so they can make their decisions on reality and not fan boy fantasy.

[alan802]

I'm definitely sold on CTS and what it can do for our shop, no doubt.  I don't necessarily question what it's done for others either, but I do have to note there are huge differences in the way our shop operates versus others where benefits aren't as substantial so that plays a huge role in when we pull the trigger.  BUT, the biggest reason we haven't pulled the trigger yet is I want a unit that will be shipped, uncrated, plugged in, trained, and running properly within a reasonable amount of time.  Essentially plug and play.  Right now, out of the big 3, or 4 depending on who you talk to, there is a big chance that the first CTS unit that shows up at your shop isn't going to be the one printing for you 2 months later.  I can be reasonable, but I could not imagine trying to coordinate all that I have to do while trying to incorporate a new piece of equipment that is not working properly...no thanks, I got enough problems I have to deal with.

One bad thing about forums is many times there is only mention of all the good things that happens at a shop and no mention of all the crap that had to be sifted through to get to the good.  I know it's human nature to only want people to see/hear about how great every decision you make is, and no amount of me talking about this subject is going to get people to open up about all the problems they've had with a piece of equipment they just paid $70K. But it does SEEM that at times people go out of their way to cover up the turd in the corner rather than say hey, there was a giant turd in the corner which stunk up the place just a little, but we got rid of it and I couldn't be happier with the outcome. 

[GraphicDisorder]

IMO some have really taken Dan's post as far to the extreme as possible. The guy posted a few key points to look at with any CTS, no brand info attached. Take his info or leave it, seemed simple to me. It was helpful to someone that will read that thread some day I am sure of it. 

As loaded as some believe "fan boys" might be for a negative post about a brand, I believe there to be just as big or bigger opposition just wanting to create something from nothing. See this thread as a perfect example of that. Heck I made a shout box post yesterday saying my dryer was down all day, I didn't fear anything negative or drama from it, nor was any created from it.

That said its probably certainly fair Dan or anyone working for a manufacture have a tag in their signature.

[bimmridder]

I am always more than happy to share the good and bad on the machine we run here. We have an M&R unit and a wax machine . Obviously the M&R unit was sold and is serviced by M&R. We bought the wax machine years ago from Kiwo, who quite honestly doesn't seem to want to support them. That's where Mark at Douthitt comes in. He has been my support over the last five years. I have both machines, and run them both. I have plenty to share on both, but I won't do it publicly anymore. Both Rich and Mark know that I share information openly and honestly. I believe they appreciate my willingness to share my feelings about both machines. One of the big problems, which Alan eluded to, is what works in my shop may not work in yours. One small feature on a machine might make it perfect for me, and suck for you. So I share what I have, and why it works for ME. Not what I think you should buy. And to be clear, I don't work for M&R, Douthitt, or Kiwo  . I do believe both Rich and Mark appreciate me sharing what information I have. I also believe both realize I will do so as honestly and without bias. "Just the facts, Ma'am". Actually, as I type, I am in conversation with three people gathering information.

[Gilligan]

One statement I took exception to.... ONE!   And I'm the one blowing things out of proportion?  Hmmm


Brandt, I've seen a trend with your post/shout box post.  Positives go into post on the forums,  negative gripes go into the much lesser read and VERY much lesser archived Shout Box.

Maybe it's a coincidence and I'm perfectly ok accepting that, but it has been the trend that I noticed.

[244]

In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn't he put that he works for M&R in his signature? Would make confusion impossible and I though that's what 244 required of his reps who post online?

What is required of an M&R when posting on this site is to identify themselves as who they are. There cannot be any hiding under fake names or alias without people knowing who they are. Dan is definitely not hiding himself and quite honestly think he is proud of what he does for a living. I do not want to add to this post as it already has lost any knowledge value. I will add Dan doesn't have to worry about a job installing our product. We are adding an additional 10 tech's this quarter. For those counting that will be a total of 63 M&R factory tech's.

I have no doubt he is proud of what he does. All I'm saying is him weighing in on the conversation about Spyder CTS users with a list of things to consider when buying a CTS and saying he has no commission to make off sales WITHOUT at least mentioning he installs the M&R units is a little off-balance.  Hell, at least Sonny blatantly plugs Xenon every chance he gets so EVERYONE KNOWS who he works for haha.

I'd rather see useful information posted as opposed to a laundry list of things to consider without mention of which hardware achieves the items on that list.  We have a good group of people here that have valid and real world opinions of CTS units and it would be nice to hear from them. I honestly feel like we are shielded here at TSB from some of the downsides of these units because owners see WHO is watching and they don't want to be honest.

If the who you are referring to is me you could not be further from the truth. I ask our customers to tell about our product good or bad. Feel free to ask any one of them if they have not heard that direct from me. Last I checked there were no secrets once more than one person knew of something.

[GraphicDisorder]

One statement I took exception to.... ONE!   And I'm the one blowing things out of proportion?  Hmmm


Brandt, I've seen a trend with your post/shout box post.  Positives go into post on the forums,  negative gripes go into the much lesser read and VERY much lesser archived Shout Box.

Maybe it's a coincidence and I'm perfectly ok accepting that, but it has been the trend that I noticed.

It's the way you did it, disrespectful if you ask me. 

It didn't occur to me that I should have started a thread about a conveyor motor going out on a dryer that's working on 10 years old now? I use the shoutbox as casual conversation, I have posted good and bad inside it.  I've posted negative issues within my business about employees/sales/equipment/etc in threads before. I don't have any major equipment issues that I felt needed a thread about though. Maybe you hadn't considered that when you were making your observations. 

M&R or any company for that matter are not perfect. I've never said otherwise.

[ebscreen]

Why were a bunch of the epson machines replaced all at once a few months ago?