Cad Cut Films and art size/detail

[ZooCity]

We're getting more into running cad cut for some of the orders we get with mixed poly items.  It's great stuff, the last job we ran was with Stahl's Premium Plus and I was impressed.  We couldn't have printed a better image on those materials- great finish, stretch and hand and easy to apply.

The downside is dealing with Stahl's custom cut division.  Getting other items, like digital from them has been ok, but with the cad cut I have never seen a group react so slowly and stupidly to order submissions.  These guys like to delete your order qty from the original submission, dramatically distort the image, scale it disproportionately, refuse to refer to a standard art or image number, won't provide an actual confirmation of qty/image and all sorts of other madness.  It's driving me nuts submitting orders, a process which ends up dragging on over a week before it finally gets sent to production.  I send vector files, more or less ready to go. 

Now, I do understand that cutting has limitations with small details that art for cutting will be slightly modified from original and that perhaps I am just ignorant to the degree these limitations effect image size.  I try to stick to basic shapes and lettering, overall images no smaller than 3.75" wide x 1.3" or so, etc.   The last one I submitted to Stahl's was a 3.75x1.3 2 color with basic text and very basic image, smallest lettering about 0.33" high.  They replied with a quote for the image at 6" wide.  Again, I can see the limitations here but I can't use a 6" wide image for a heart print and this design is about as simple as it gets.

In an effort to keep these orders from taking our contractors a week just to begin process, I want to see if anyone has advice on what detail is/is not achievable with your typical cut heat seal product.   Thanks in advance.

[Sbrem]

It is true that you can cut only so small before you really can't weed it, you'll pull the letters or bits up. We cut our own here, bought our plotter in '94, it has paid for itself a million times over. Unfortunately, it only runs on an old computer, running Mac OS9, so eventually we'll get a new one, Roland or Graphtec...

Steve

[Inkworks]

.33" high lettering is too small for cad cut. it's not un-doable, but it's typically very slow weeding.

[Frog]

With a little experience, you will learn what is worth the time to weed at a given rate, and what is not.
Even though I have someone who cuts my film for me, I weed it myself, and learned by experience. I try to charge accordingly when it it's going to be more work. Some fonts are tough, even when larger. (Some materials are tougher as well)
Back when I had Stahls make names for me, I believe that their rule was no smaller than 1/2" They have straight pricing and don't adjust for difficulty.

[ZooCity]

Thanks everyone I will make sure that our lettering and any detail is no smaller than half an inch. I'm guessing it's all doable but it's just as you said a matter of time and whether or not the client can absorb that cost of weeding all the fine details.

Both of the contractors that we use have generic pricing for the CAD cut material so it may be that they just simply don't want to take on work that's over a certain labor time. Wait I take that back one of the contractors we use simply charges over a certain amount of labor for fine detail weeding and I've noticed that they will run work that has very fine details compared to the other one

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[ZooCity]

I just wanted to publicly say thanks to Steve, Sbrem, for graciously test cutting our file. 

And I have to give a plug here to Wellington House, they took this job with no issues. 

Stahls, on the other hand just was ah, stalling us out, as usual.  I did manage to get some spec from someone at Stahl's regarding cutting sizes, in case it's helpful to others who find this thread:

The cutting specs for the Super Film is .085” for stem thickness  and .065” for cavities.

Not sure if this just applies to this particular material or all of them.  That seems pretty darn small to me though.

[Frog]

I just wanted to publicly say thanks to Steve, Sbrem, for graciously test cutting our file. 

And I have to give a plug here to Wellington House, they took this job with no issues. 

Stahls, on the other hand just was ah, stalling us out, as usual.  I did manage to get some spec from someone at Stahl's regarding cutting sizes, in case it's helpful to others who find this thread:

The cutting specs for the Super Film is .085” for stem thickness  and .065” for cavities.

Not sure if this just applies to this particular material or all of them.  That seems pretty darn small to me though.

Damn, you made me realize that I misspoke, and I didn't have Stahls cut for me, as out here on the West Coast, I have always gotten my Stahls stuff (and cutting back when I needed it) from Wellington House.
(Back in the day they were an apparel distributor as well)

[ZooCity]

Wellington House rules, I think they are going to be the go to for us from now until eternity.   I had a few times with Stahl's where I was losing my will to exist. 

As per this last order Wellington appears to be ok with 0.03” cavities. 

[Sbrem]

I just wanted to publicly say thanks to Steve, Sbrem, for graciously test cutting our file. 

And I have to give a plug here to Wellington House, they took this job with no issues. 

Stahls, on the other hand just was ah, stalling us out, as usual.  I did manage to get some spec from someone at Stahl's regarding cutting sizes, in case it's helpful to others who find this thread:

The cutting specs for the Super Film is .085” for stem thickness  and .065” for cavities.

Not sure if this just applies to this particular material or all of them.  That seems pretty darn small to me though.

Thank you Chris, glad to help. The file you sent me was tad smaller than .085" (0.074), but I cut an "Est. 2013" the other day whose lines were a quarter of that, and it's a 20 plus year old plotter. It did require careful weeding, but the customer loved it.

Steve

[BorisB]

I just wanted to publicly say thanks to Steve, Sbrem, for graciously test cutting our file. 

And I have to give a plug here to Wellington House, they took this job with no issues. 

Stahls, on the other hand just was ah, stalling us out, as usual.  I did manage to get some spec from someone at Stahl's regarding cutting sizes, in case it's helpful to others who find this thread:

The cutting specs for the Super Film is .085” for stem thickness  and .065” for cavities.

Not sure if this just applies to this particular material or all of them.  That seems pretty darn small to me though.

Thank you Chris, glad to help. The file you sent me was tad smaller than .085" (0.074), but I cut an "Est. 2013" the other day whose lines were a quarter of that, and it's a 20 plus year old plotter. It did require careful weeding, but the customer loved it.

Steve

wait, is 0.085"  2mm in metric? You are talking about letter height?

[Sbrem]

The conversion formula I just found said .085 is 2.159 mm... here's the small lettering I cut the other day...

Steve

[Frog]

I just wanted to publicly say thanks to Steve, Sbrem, for graciously test cutting our file. 

And I have to give a plug here to Wellington House, they took this job with no issues. 

Stahls, on the other hand just was ah, stalling us out, as usual.  I did manage to get some spec from someone at Stahl's regarding cutting sizes, in case it's helpful to others who find this thread:

The cutting specs for the Super Film is .085” for stem thickness  and .065” for cavities.

Not sure if this just applies to this particular material or all of them.  That seems pretty darn small to me though.

Thank you Chris, glad to help. The file you sent me was tad smaller than .085" (0.074), but I cut an "Est. 2013" the other day whose lines were a quarter of that, and it's a 20 plus year old plotter. It did require careful weeding, but the customer loved it.

Steve

wait, is 0.085"  2mm in metric? You are talking about letter height?

That is for "stem thickness", which I assume is the stroke of a letter, not the height. Seems a little conservative, but some of these materials weed in a way to lose small pieces that one wants to remain.
I consider some jobs as "two handed weeders" as I need to hold something down with one tool as I remove material next to it with another.

[royster13]

I do cut small stuff from time to time.....But it is hardly worth it when you consider how much longer it takes to weed...

[Inkworks]

Cutting is easy, weeding can suck, particularly with "easy-weed"

[Frog]

Cutting is easy, weeding can suck, particularly with "easy-weed"

The same thing that makes Easy Weed less than easy to weed regular designs is actually better for holding super small stuff, weed-intensive as it can be. It stays stuck.
Something like Gorilla Grip will not allow one to reposition a piece that came up unintentionally without adding another adhesive. Glue stick glue applied carefully works, but who has the time?