Statics, Retensionables, Mesh, How They Affected This Shop

[Prosperi-Tees]

I for one am not a good candidate for retensionable frames. I know that I would not maintain them properly. I am more inclined to the EZ frame but still find it cost prohibitive. So the next best thing for me is the smesh static frame. I run the auto solely 99% of the time so if I can do 300 an hour im happy with that.

[tonypep]

The reason I razz some of you here on tension is not without good intention. The fact is that most if not all the theory on high tension applies to shear; which can be altered by a many number of other variables. One of which is ink rheology and viscosity. My vision; as we approach 2020, is that waterbased inks, acrylics, and silicones will begin to dominate our industry. That changes a lot of things.
The fact is that while folks like Bill, Marshall, Richard, Joe, Mark, and countless others were spreading the obvious benefits of high tension, the interdependent variable it primarily applies to is ink. In this case plastisol. When that variable changes it affects others such as tension. The above mentioned folks as well as countless others have missed this as they had little or no experience with aqueous ink application. I type this with all due respect, some of these people are old friends and mentors (others........not so much). Now we have different mesh thread diameters, mesh openings, etc that not only not require high tension, they cannot tolerate it. So, after many years of stagnate technology, we see much change in textile decoration. And with all this sudden change, we might want to look back on what we were once taught as not necessarily applicable or necessary in a given production scenario. The analogies are endless but I'm out of time
best tp

[ABuffington]

Thanks for the great topic Alan and thoughtful insights.  The reality is both good statics at 22-25n and good Newmans at 30-35 will make great prints and production yields.  From a production manager point of view I always looked at loading the shirt as running a marathon in place.  Sure I can push him or her up to 800-900/hr, but my rejects rate went up, placement on designs that need leveling, or special placement suffered.  The story of the tortoise and the hare is apt.  I'd rather run a hundred below max speed, rotate my workers, and create a work environment that kept them in my shop.  Take all the best screens in the world, it still comes down to retaining good employees who work hard but don't burn out.  If I started with 50 employees at the beginning of the year and I retained most of them, they will be smarter and harder workers the next year by being proud of their work and the effort they took.  Just another point of view, but running machines and people at max speeds burns both the press and the worker out.  IMO.

Alan

[Screen Dan]

I haven't read all of the replies so forgive me if anything I say has already been covered.

I think one of the primary factors for maintaining an inventory of roller frames is labor...being an exchange of time (and hopefully expertise) for money.  If I didn't have 3 very competent screen techs working under me there is no way we could properly maintain (stretch and keep at tension on a reliable and doable schedule) an inventory of 600 23x31 rollers and 48 32x48s). 

Are you a one man shop with a relatively high work load?  Go with some good tight statics.  It's enough to have to coat every screen, line up every film, expose every screen, develop every stencil, set up every job, print every shirt, fold every shirt, card every screen, reclaim every screen and then do it all over again.

Do you have a full service screen department?  Do you have enough skilled labor?  Only you can answer these questions.

Before I got to this department I was the lead operator for years.  I was too nit picky to have the fastest set up times but I had the least down time and the fastest run times.  Even with low tension 180-T mesh in statics.  I could run that press for a 10 hours shift at ~50dz/hr all alone, 80-100dz/hr with a good assistant I trusted.  Of course I understood why and how to use my off-contact more than most people in the shop.  The quality was fantastic.  Of course some of the ideals we shoot for had to be compromised a tad.  The lightest touch I could get away with back then on a Gauntlet 2 (that I maintained meticulously) was ~40 PSI for a 16" pallet and 18" squeegee.  S-Mesh changed all of that.  But then suddenly a screen with a meager 20n was performing well beyond what a 40n 180-T could pull off...now I'm at 15~20 PSI. 

While getting this squared away can certainly help you to get your presses running faster it's far from the only way.  I'm of the mind that you definitely want to identify and eliminate as many of the variables as possible...but sometimes you just have a broken machine to work with--figuratively speaking.  If you don't have the time or resources to fix the figurative machine you come up with a kludge.  The job still has to get done.  This could be with pressure, squeegee, mesh, off contact...PFPF is an absolute worst case scenario.

So what does it take us to maintain 600 roller frames?  Considering our workflow here (and that part of it is trying to keep 30,000 prints or one weeks worth of work on the shelves, whichever is bigger seasonally.)  Those screens will sit on the rack for about a week (ideally). 

First off, 3 well cross-trained techs.  When we have a fresh stretch we make sure we retension it the first time it comes back through as the losses are the biggest up front.  Then we retension that screen every two weeks or whenever it next comes through reclaim after that date.


That must seem lavish to some printers.  If so then good tight statics are probably right for you. 

Maintaining all these rollers is not an easy process and it is cumbersome.  But it results in an inventory of screens that is tensioned nearly perfectly for our needs, to our specs.  As created and measured by us, again, for our needs.

...however compared to running a pneumatic stretch table and never being able to retension while also only being able to stretch 2 screens an hour--4 if your guy is really good or really reckless?  This is way better.  Hands down.  Not to mention there is no aluminum dust in the stretch room.

As far as I see it it's just a matter of labor consideration.  Time vs money vs need.  You could probably push ink through denim screens if you push it hard enough...

As usual, YMMV.

[Sbrem]

Great post Dan. In the earlier days, stapled mesh to wooden frames was how it was done, and I can tell you that they wouldn't move the needle on a tension meter; yet, we printed tons of shirts that way, happy customers all around. Yes, we got a good stretcher later, and then rollers and other retensionables, and still use a mix of retensionables and statics. Also, we've been aware of S meshes for many years, in fact we were using a Murakami 110S (had the thread diameter of a 125 mesh we were told) more than 10 years ago, and I believe as well that they allow lower tensions to the do the job as long as each of the screens in the run are similar tensions.

Steve

[GraphicDisorder]

We will go rollers some day. Our deal is time, we have nobody to maintain the screens.  Currently the shop is so busy in each area that each area is struggling to complete work in time frame we give, so there is certainly no time for maintaining screens.  If anything would speed us up more it would be a better dryer and that will likely come next year.  But Rollers are on our radar. We did try one out last year, we got 2 uses out of one before it got popped from mishandling it. Nobody knows exactly how but crap happens.  Plus we are talking a pretty good sized investment as id rather go all rollers when we do this for real.  But all good points in this thread.

[tonypep]

BTW If you are looking for new statics, Nazdar now has an excellent affordable source. Inexpensive, lacquer based, and very tight.

[alan802]

BTW If you are looking for new statics, Nazdar now has an excellent affordable source. Inexpensive, lacquer based, and very tight.

Thin thread options?

[tonypep]

Probably. You can call and ask. I use them for my 36"x 40"s

[ABuffington]

How well do they retain tension?  What is the stress, strain curve?  Mesh is not all the same. 

[tonypep]

Holding at 23n that's all we'll ever need. Great job on the grinding. I can choose wall thickness,etc