guns, guns and more guns . . .

[Chadwick]

Good thread.

Didn't really expect to read about firearms here, so that's kind of a bonus from a good crew.
As I understand it, many of you in America can carry firearms.
Not a legal option up here, but it might make a more polite society if we could.
( that's kind of a joke, but you likely have to be Canadian to get it )

I've been around firearms all my life.
I'm not a collector, avid shooter, or gun-nut.
I was taught when very young to respect the workings, and also the danger inherent, to all firearms.
I still find I sleep better at night when in proximity to guns and ammo though.

Anyhow, like I said,
Good thread.

[Dottonedan]

We here in Florida are looking at a change to the Stand your ground law. I don't know the specifics of the law, but where it causes concern is some people have obviously thought that it enables them to actually shoot someone if you can justify saying that your life was in danger and they have used this as a way of trying to get away with a shooting. If I'm getting this right, They don't need to have a weapon to be considered a threat on your life. We have two different cases going on here in Florida right now that deals in this specific issue with the law. Me, I am in favor of being able to carry a concealed weapon under license although, I think they need to make be process much more educational and an on going life time class. One day or so a year every year in order to keep the license.


One most recent case on the news is where a guy confronted loud party go'ers at a home several houses down next to his. A party going on late at night with loud music.


The guy apparently thought he could record the incident to show his side, state the phrases "I'm standing my ground", give warnings or something similar...and shoot one or two of them unarmed.  He shot. I think he wounded 2 and killed one of them. The video is being used against him now.


http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/stand-your-ground-texas-man-kills-teacher-ov



They just had a "discussion session" on the law here in Fl last week. I'm sure it will be changed or taken out eventually in one of our up and coming elections.

[Chadwick]

That's kinda messed up.
Thing is, you can't do anything against stupidity with legislation.
( which is why so many laws seem ridiculous...they tried, haha FAIL! )

[sweetts]

In Ohio we have always been open carry in the last 5-6 years we are allowed to conceal carry with training background check and licensing It was not till two years ago we passed the castle doctrine, before that the person defending themselves had to prove the person they shot was there to harm them. Now the burden if proof is on the criminal as it should be. I have read  lately that people want to repeal this law they are saying people should not kill someone just because they are breaking into their home. People amaze me

Sent  from samsung gem(the worst smart phone ever)

[mk162]

People are stupid, they had a case like that in Florida where somebody at a Wal-Mart was about to stab an employee, like on top of the employee, with a knife and ready to stab them when a woman with a gun stepped in and told the guy to drop it.  The interviewed some lady that at the store and she said something to effect of "I can't believe they let people walk around with guns."

Now that is a responsible gun owner.

Also, that guy in Texas that beat to death the guy trying to molest his daughter is well within his right...if the story went down like it's being told.

Same thing as the Trayvon thing, if Zimmerman was walking back to the car, and Trayvon jumped him, and Zimmerman yells for help 14 times before shooting Trayvon, I have to say the law will probably fall on Zimmermans side.

[tpitman]

A couple of things as I understand them. The case of Robert Zimmerman is not covered under "stand your ground". It is covered under self-defense. All of the hoopla over it as Zimmerman "standing his ground" is news organizations and gun-control advocates who object to the law by claiming it enables people to blow away anyone who looks at them cross-eyed. After its passage in Florida, the Brady people allegedly handed out flyers at the airport to tourists warning them not to upset the locals to avoid getting shot. The "stand your ground" component of the self-defense law states that you have no duty to retreat, that you may defend yourself, or another, against an attack likely to result in grave bodily harm or death, anywhere you're legally allowed to be. It's an extension of the castle doctrine, at least here in Florida, and this is, again, as I understand it.
As for the guy who went over to the neighbor's house to complain about the loud music, toting a video camera and a gun, stating that he "felt threatened" and was "standing his ground" should probably be prosecuted for first degree murder, and for being an a$$hole. The law also states that you can't initiate a confrontation, which is the one fuzzy area of the Zimmerman case -- determining who started the confrontation.

[Dottonedan]

I'm with you. Just want to clarify the one point. I don't think that he ever actually went to their house at all. He did confront people on the street somewhere between his house and theirs on the street to ask them to keep the noise down or yo more so to "tell them". The next phase is where as a result of him asking the people on the street, the owners of the house and a few others came down to his house and actually in his driveway to confront him. He then startef the warnings about the gun and the camera and the rest is what you see on the video.

A few experts in the case see it both ways. In the Gun instructors side, he did everything he was trained to do in classes.  On the law side, the stand your ground is never in favor of the initiator. As they see it, he initiated and escalated the scene.

[tpitman]

One more thing about Zimmerman. I think he made a huge mistake leaving his truck. I'm sure he thinks so, in retrospect, and I believe he's regretful. That doesn't exonerate Martin for beating him. The problem is having a concealed weapons permit, and belonging to a Neighborhood Watch Program doesn't confer a "deputy" status on an individual. It wasn't as if he was going to the aid of someone being beaten. He did in fact go looking for Martin. I think he was set upon by Martin after not finding him, but Zimmerman bears some responsibility in the shooting. Why the prosecutor has charged first-degree murder might simply be an opportunity to cool down the hype and protests, knowing full well that a jury won't likely convict under that charge. It wasn't first degree murder. Maybe manslaughter.
It pisses me off that people do foolish things with guns that ultimately threaten our right to own them or carry them for self-defense. Zimmerman is guilty of poor judgement having left his truck with a gun, albeit legally, which escalated into a situation where he was forced to defend himself. Look for trouble while carrying a gun, and you might just find it. If you carry, and find you have to use it, you'd better have all the t's crossed and the i's dotted, because you'll be called upon to justify your judgement in using it.

[mk162]

I agree that Zimmerman's choice to leave the truck was a bad one.  what I think was a good choice on his part was waiting to get the crap beaten out of him before shooting.  He wasn't verbally assaulted by Trayvon, which he would have been well within his rights to do, and Zimmerman would have deserved that.  Zimmerman was on his back screaming for help, his first instinct was to scream, not grab his gun and start shooting.  In that aspect he show restraint, which I think a lot of people wouldn't have.

It was a series of very bad choices that led to the death of Trayvon, and none of them are reversible.

That being said, I am getting sick and tired of them using a 6 year old photo for Trayvon and Zimmerman's mugshots when the story is in the news.

And another thought...all of the politicians in washington that stepped into the middle of it owe BOTH families an apology, they had no business pushing this story for political gain.  And most of the politicians that commented on it and took advantage of it are the dumbest members of congress.

[tpitman]

Absolutely. It brought out some shameful accusations and political pandering based on nothing.

[Gilligan]

I just recently made an eye opening trip to Alan's shop and right outside of Houston I stopped for gas.  As I reached back for my wallet my arm brushed against my gun and I thought... "Woah, I'm in a different state... better hop back in the car and check the law".

Guess what... rootin' tootin' Texas does NOT have an Open Carry law!  In fact if you have your gun in your car it MUST be concealed!

I was quite happy to get back in to good ol' Louisiana and put my gun back on my side.

[Prosperi-Tees]

Ok have to bring this up cause I got the OK from the misses to proceed especially since I have spent some late nights at the shop printing by myself. So I may have to get myself something for Christmas for a change. So I hear alot of good things about the SA Xd series. I looked them up and am almost concerned that it is "too safe". Do the extra safety features slow you down if you were in an emergency situation and had to make a split second decision?

I hear the Glock is the "least safe" gun.

I would like to hear more about the FNX that was referred to earlier in this thread. I'd really like to be in the sub $400 range.

[Gilligan]

Actually the XD's are AWESOME guns... safe... umm, relative.  Those "safety" features won't slow you down a bit.  The are not much more than the Glocks.  It has a grip "safety" and a trigger "safety".  All these do are make sure that you have the grip held and the trigger is deliberately pulled (to a degree).  This makes sure you WANT to fire it.  But it doesn't keep it from being fired by anyone that can grip it and pull the trigger.  The glock just doesn't have the grip safety, it does have a "split" trigger style "safety".

The FNX on the other hand has a decocker, this drops the hammer making it a Double Action trigger pull (10lbs, I believe) which makes it hard for a child to pull.  Plus you can also put on the manual thumb safety, this means you have to switch the safety off to pull the 10lb trigger.  You don't HAVE to use it.  Maybe carry it in the holster in Double Action mode but no safety but when you take the gun off at night put the manual safety on just in case a little one gets a hold of it.

You definitely get more used to carrying it than you think.  I'm never really "tested" to see how "instinctively" you would react to a "threat", but the other night I was getting the baby out of the car and the wife had already gone in the house.  Well some guy was walking down the street from the other side of the van and I didn't know.  He all of a sudden says "hey, where you at man..." he's talking on his cell but because he was just coming around to ear/eye shot it caught me off guard and I had without thinking had my hand on my gun ready to draw but of course it all worked itself out in my head before I had done more that put my hand on the gun.  I wasn't about to just blast away, but I wasn't going to have to do much more effort to do what I needed to do if it turned out to be a real "threat".

I'll be making a few purchases pretty soon when we slow down as I'm trading shirts for the guns... my mother is interested in one as well.  I'll likely get her a Judge and put a couple of 410 shells in the first few chambers.

[mk162]

if you are getting a Judge, look into the Winchester PDX1 rounds.  They are friggin' awesome.  I bought some for my long gun.  They are actually more deadly from a shotgun than the judge since the speed is higher and the grouping is a little tighter.

of course with a .410, a blank is damn effective as well.  I sweat that thing will shatter windows if fired indoors. 

[Prosperi-Tees]

Actually the XD's are AWESOME guns... safe... umm, relative.  Those "safety" features won't slow you down a bit.  The are not much more than the Glocks.  It has a grip "safety" and a trigger "safety".  All these do are make sure that you have the grip held and the trigger is deliberately pulled (to a degree).  This makes sure you WANT to fire it.  But it doesn't keep it from being fired by anyone that can grip it and pull the trigger.  The glock just doesn't have the grip safety, it does have a "split" trigger style "safety".

The FNX on the other hand has a decocker, this drops the hammer making it a Double Action trigger pull (10lbs, I believe) which makes it hard for a child to pull.  Plus you can also put on the manual thumb safety, this means you have to switch the safety off to pull the 10lb trigger.  You don't HAVE to use it.  Maybe carry it in the holster in Double Action mode but no safety but when you take the gun off at night put the manual safety on just in case a little one gets a hold of it.

You definitely get more used to carrying it than you think.  I'm never really "tested" to see how "instinctively" you would react to a "threat", but the other night I was getting the baby out of the car and the wife had already gone in the house.  Well some guy was walking down the street from the other side of the van and I didn't know.  He all of a sudden says "hey, where you at man..." he's talking on his cell but because he was just coming around to ear/eye shot it caught me off guard and I had without thinking had my hand on my gun ready to draw but of course it all worked itself out in my head before I had done more that put my hand on the gun.  I wasn't about to just blast away, but I wasn't going to have to do much more effort to do what I needed to do if it turned out to be a real "threat".

I'll be making a few purchases pretty soon when we slow down as I'm trading shirts for the guns... my mother is interested in one as well.  I'll likely get her a Judge and put a couple of 410 shells in the first few chambers.

Good stuff. I am thinking I am going to have to go to a gun range and rent some to see which I like the best. My neighbor at the shop is really into guns and has his CCW. I will be racking his brain quite a bit because just looking online makes every gun look good.