Wilflex DispenseMaster 4, anybody know more? Erin?

[blue moon]

http://www.polyone.com/en-us/about/businessgroups/Inks/Literature/DM4_Final.pdf

is anybody using this? How well does it work? What's the price???

pierre

[spotcolorsupply]

Those things are awesome...!!!

I sold one to a company in GA a few years back. Theirs used the MX system and was good for quarts to gallons. Very accurate and very low maintenance.

I think they go for around 70K tho.... 

The price keeps them out of most shops, but will allow any dummy to mix inks 

[jsheridan]

I remember seeing it at a show way back in 01' or 02 I think. Was a BEAST back then. It's come a long way since then but the price tag remains an OMG factor.

[tonypep]

We had a prototype from Rutland at OATS. Took up a whole room and ran around 120K. Then again there were nine presses three shifts.
Interesting though; instead of a turnabout the ink guys liked to use gloves and mix with with their hands! I believe the one Brannon sold was up for grabs for around 16K which would yield sufficient ROI for a shop with six or more autos. Once again excellent technology with little benefit to 98% of garment printers. Better to make your own mixing station with a sliding scale (on wheels). I posted about this somewhere. Pierre if your interested I can scan a photo and send to you.
tp

[pwalsh]

http://www.polyone.com/en-us/about/businessgroups/Inks/Literature/DM4_Final.pdf

is anybody using this? How well does it work? What's the price???

pierre

Pierre:  These units are in use at some of the largest screen-print shops in North America.  Normally the payback is found at shops running 6+ auto's over multiple shifts with 2 or more full time people working in the ink room mixing colors.  The cost of the units ranges from $80K to $100K depending on the final system configuration and while these units are expensive we have client with units in multiple facilities, and also one customer in Central America that has been running a DM4 for about 18 months now, who is currently looking to add a second DM4 to keep up with their expanded production capability. 

All companies that I have experience with that are running the WilflexDM4 DispenseMaster Ink Formulation and Dispensing systems experience a reduction in color matching labor, more accurate and consistent color matches, and significant reduction in the amount of waste ink generated. Another option that the larger companies are using is to set these DM4 units up with the Wilflex PC color systems and multiple ink bases to take utilize the system across different garment types and market segments.   

The heart of the system is the Wilflex IMS software, precision scale system, and PC – Pigment Concentrate system.  Maybe, just maybe one day PolyOne (Wilflex Parent Company) will introduce a semi-automatic system that will allow a much greater number of more moderate sized screen-print shops to take advantage of the product and labor savings and increased quality available from these types of dispensing systems.  I think that it was last year that Wilflex launched their Color Kitchen which was an attempt to help smaller and medium size shops take advantage of the benefits of their color matching solutions.

[blue moon]

thanx guys, great info. My primary issue is the time it takes to mix the inks and would also like to keep the area better organized and cleaner. Several posts have been made before about the home made dispensers and setups (Tony and JSheridan come to mind) so I was looking for information on how reliable and accurate is this system. It is good to hear that there is a good working solution out there. At $80K though we are gonna have to eat our Wheaties for a while.

Does anybody know how accurate is the color produced? I am finding that my current system is getting me close, or right on is some cases, but very often the color is off and what's even more frustrating the same formula a year later does not produce the same color. Maybe I am to critical and the results are within spec, so I would be interested knowing, how repeatable are the results and how close is the color once mixed (this might actually be a different topic).

pierre

[tonypep]

Since many ink manufacturers are switching formulas to non-phthalates inconsistent formulas could be a problem though I often see the cause of this due to operator error. If too much of a component is added and cannot be retrieved the final color is of course compromised. This can usually be corrected if the individual posesses those skill sets.
A good ink person can usually meet or beat the speed of the auto system when properly trained and motivated. But again the auto system is for high volume output where the buckets are placed in a shaker or turnabout as the next color is being made. More like an assembly line of continuous ink manufacturing. Many of the true high volume printers immediately replace an empty bucket of color even though it is not immediately needed. When it is it will be ready on the shelf. At some companies I would keep app 85% of the Pantone colors on the shelf at all times.
P-you may want to check out that Amergraph pump. Just get one and play with it

[blue moon]

Since many ink manufacturers are switching formulas to non-phthalates inconsistent formulas could be a problem though I often see the cause of this due to operator error. If too much of a component is added and cannot be retrieved the final color is of course compromised. This can usually be corrected if the individual posesses those skill sets.
A good ink person can usually meet or beat the speed of the auto system when properly trained and motivated. But again the auto system is for high volume output where the buckets are placed in a shaker or turnabout as the next color is being made. More like an assembly line of continuous ink manufacturing. Many of the true high volume printers immediately replace an empty bucket of color even though it is not immediately needed. When it is it will be ready on the shelf. At some companies I would keep app 85% of the Pantone colors on the shelf at all times.
P-you may want to check out that Amergraph pump. Just get one and play with it

I asked about the hand pumps and received mixed reviews. Supposedly the issue was that the ink was to thick to get through the pump. It is on the list of things to check out though. Thanx for the reminder!

pierre

[ZooCity]

Well, this is off topic but in the genre.  Since 99.9% of us won't be using a fancy ink robot to mix our inks for us, how are we dispensing our pigments and bases?

We use Wilflex Epic PCs with a Sartorious 7500 scale that will soon be hooked up to the Wilflex IMS via a netbook.  I'm looking for a way to avoid using ink knives with the pigments, you use so little for some quart mixes that it seems downright wasteful.  I think bottles or pumps would dispense the PCs just fine but what do you do about stirring?  I can't seem to figure that part out.  My running thought is to use squeeze bottles, stir the PCs very, very well before filling the bottles an just shake the living hell out of them before dispensing each time.  Better solutions?

That Amergraph pump looks like a good idea for spot White, spot Black and commonly used bases (or commonly used spot colors bought by the 5gal).  I would probably use it on our Mixing Base 5gal.  By the description it sounds like it could even work for emulsion if it was fairly light tight since it has the "wipers" on the inside.

If this is too far off-topic we could make it a new post but I'm much more interested in low-tech solutions to ink mixing. 

[ebscreen]

We pump base out of 5's and have some of the pigments in big squeeze bottles. Other pigments
just ain't gonna flow. Best solution I've found so far short of buying said robot.

As for accuracy, wait until you get to waterbased mixing. Pretty sure there's a joker working for Rutland.

[tonypep]

Squeeze bottles work perfectcly for WB pigments though, as with plastisols, the different pigments have different properties. Some like to settle so always shake before dispensing. One day (Erin are you listening?) Wilflex Oasis might even be able to be purchased this way eliminating the need for transferring.
tp

[blue moon]

We pump base out of 5's and have some of the pigments in big squeeze bottles. Other pigments
just ain't gonna flow. Best solution I've found so far short of buying said robot.

As for accuracy, wait until you get to waterbased mixing. Pretty sure there's a joker working for Rutland.

what do you use to pump? How much was it and how well does it work?

pierre

[ebscreen]

Spider somethingeranother? Wait, just checked, Spindex. Bought used from a local shop. They had been
using it for white which seemed tough at best. For base it's super fantastic. Comes with a bucket dolly
that I use for wheeling the white around. Just checked and it's made by Amergraph but not sure if
it's the one everybody refers to. If so I lucked out and paid $50 for it.

[tonypep]

Thats the Amergraph FYI and yes some inks were too thick when I had them but maybe they improved it.