Glue Issues on S-Mesh Statics

[3Deep]

With everything said, yes bad glue is one cause and then there is how tight the screen are, I don't have any S mesh but I know if they are jacked up around 25n to 30n you can count on the letting go sooner.  S mesh is a single part thread correct instead of a weaved thread IMO the weave will hold the glue way better than the single thread, maybe 18 to 21 newtons is better for static S mesh and I know some of you guys think 18n to 20n is unthinkable, but your screens will last alot longer than a few months unless that's all you need them for.

darryl

[screenprintguy]

With everything said, yes bad glue is one cause and then there is how tight the screen are, I don't have any S mesh but I know if they are jacked up around 25n to 30n you can count on the letting go sooner.  S mesh is a single part thread correct instead of a weaved thread IMO the weave will hold the glue way better than the single thread, maybe 18 to 21 newtons is better for static S mesh and I know some of you guys think 18n to 20n is unthinkable, but your screens will last alot longer than a few months unless that's all you need them for.

darryl

The best part with S mesh, D, is that you don't need it to be cranked up to those tight tensions. I have a bunch of S mesh I've put in play on Newmans here, "none" of them have popped. I did exactly what Shur loc told me to do, and they are really nice, ink falls right through them. If you try to go above 30 with those, pop goes the s mesh =)!!!

[Underbase37]

I think it might be a batch issue. I haven't see this bad of a problem in our shop but, I do have a few with the edge curling on it. But out of the 60 or so "S" mesh we have in production I don't think this is a normal thing.

Murphy37

[sqslabs]

I have around 30 s mesh statics in production and most of them look like these..... Glue is failing on them... In my shop we do not use any haze remover at all and our chemicals are pretty tame so I have a feeling it's more or less a problem with the process and/or glue they are using..... We beat up our screens pretty good but I have some other statics that have years of printing on them without the glue failing like these. S mesh statics do not look like the hot ticket in MY shop, I prefer our newmans with s mesh on them

Good (and bad) to hear I'm not the only one with these issues. I'm shooting for my shop to be running 90% rollers by the end of October, so I'll be keeping my s-mesh on those from here on out as well.  I'd think Murakami may want to look into the issue though, as for those who don't realize its the glue it can only add to the "fragile" hype and keep shops away from the mesh in general.

With everything said, yes bad glue is one cause and then there is how tight the screen are, I don't have any S mesh but I know if they are jacked up around 25n to 30n you can count on the letting go sooner.  S mesh is a single part thread correct instead of a weaved thread IMO the weave will hold the glue way better than the single thread, maybe 18 to 21 newtons is better for static S mesh and I know some of you guys think 18n to 20n is unthinkable, but your screens will last alot longer than a few months unless that's all you need them for.

All of the s-mesh statics that I have settled at 20n on the dot, so they definitely weren't stretched beyond their limits.  Interesting thought on the thread itself though.  I was speaking with someone else earlier today who also mentioned the fact that the thin thread would offer less area to glue in general.  More open area = Less surface area. 
 

ink falls right through them

This is about the most spot-on description of s-mesh that I've read yet.   

[ABuffington]

For S Mesh stretched at Murakami we use a 2 part  polyurethane glue, not super glue or cyanolates.  The reason is super glue can create a very sharp edge and will cut the mesh on the inside edge.  If you see a release of mesh from the frame and you purchased from Murakami or one of our dealers, contact me directly.  Whether you bought them from a dealer or us.

Alan

[scott316]

For S Mesh stretched at Murakami we use a 2 part  polyurethane glue, not super glue or cyanolates.  The reason is super glue can create a very sharp edge and will cut the mesh on the inside edge.  If you see a release of mesh from the frame and you purchased from Murakami or one of our dealers, contact me directly.  Whether you bought them from a dealer or us.

Alan

Alan I was just about to say that Alan from MURAKAMI told us to use polyurethane glue. We at Spot Color Supply use the polyurethane glue on s-mesh.

[TCT]

@Alan, if a company sells and stretches your mesh, do you guys hold them to a particular standard?

[tonypep]

For S Mesh stretched at Murakami we use a 2 part  polyurethane glue, not super glue or cyanolates.  The reason is super glue can create a very sharp edge and will cut the mesh on the inside edge.  If you see a release of mesh from the frame and you purchased from Murakami or one of our dealers, contact me directly.  Whether you bought them from a dealer or us.

Alan

Thanks Alan.........I knew that was going on. The cyanoacrylate glue is indeed inferior

[KevWilso]

For S Mesh stretched at Murakami we use a 2 part  polyurethane glue, not super glue or cyanolates.  The reason is super glue can create a very sharp edge and will cut the mesh on the inside edge.  If you see a release of mesh from the frame and you purchased from Murakami or one of our dealers, contact me directly.  Whether you bought them from a dealer or us.

Alan

We distribute these frames; so if this is happening with any of the Murakami frames purchased from me at River City please feel free to contact me as well.  I will be working closely with Al on this to get this issue resolved. 

[ABuffington]

We are conducting tests on dip tanks and haze removers from several suppliers.  Any info on what is used in dip tanks in your shop helps us test here.  In some cases the frames may not have had enough texture on the metal and caused the release.  Also good ideas on the surface area of the mesh, vs open area.  Tension level is always subjective, some like a lot of tension, some less.  I would agree that running at 18-20 newtons will preserve the mesh and due to the low elongation threads it will still hold excellent register.  What I have seen in shops is presses may be set up for low tension screens and when a high tension S mesh screen is introduced the off contact is not adjusted down from the high off contact needed for low tension screens.  This occurs south of the border more than here, but setting up a balanced set of screens with similar tensions, may not be exactly the same and produces better results from job to job press performance.

[screenprintguy]

Scott, haven't forgotten about you brother, I have a batch of frames to send you and re-up on some other stuff, Just haven't gotten a minute to breathe. If I don't get to it the week, I'll put it together over the weekend and get to you Monday. I love the S mesh!!!!

[ABuffington]

@Alan, if a company sells and stretches your mesh, do you guys hold them to a particular standard?

This is a good question since we have little control over their stretching methods.  We provide mesh tension recommendations but depending on equipment and handling they may choose to go to a lower tension.  The best bet is to check out the mesh guide:

http://murakamiscreen.com/smartmesh/mesh-chart-and-tension-guide/

Click on the PDF version for easier viewing.  Look up a mesh count: ex 150/48, far right column will give recommended tension levels.  For textile shops use a tension halfway in the range.  For 150/48 18-28n I start the tension at 24-25 and on cut out hit 22n which is safe workable tension for a textile shop.  The type of stretching machine, the frame, and environment all play a part in how high the tension can be taken. 

One trick I have seen recently and used is to take a 1/2 or 3/4 inch masking tape strip and wrap it around the inside of the Newman Channel to cover the inside edge where the mesh wraps around.  This helps cover dents and burrs on banged up Newmans and offers a softer edge that protects the thin threads.

Alan

[bulldog]

One trick I have seen recently and used is to take a 1/2 or 3/4 inch masking tape strip and wrap it around the inside of the Newman Channel to cover the inside edge where the mesh wraps around.  This helps cover dents and burrs on banged up Newmans and offers a softer edge that protects the thin threads.

Alan

Al - is there an issue with masking tape residue or the tape coming loose during reclaim? Maybe the yellow newman tape would be better? Any thoughts? That's not a bad idea and I might start doing that.

[ABuffington]

Since it is pinched between stretched mesh and the roller it is held in place pretty good by the tension of the screen.  I haven't had a chance to evaluate in long use, but as long as mesh is on it, I havent' seen it release.  Yes there are other tapes that would really hold better.  The masking tape folds nicely around the edge and has some softness that seems to help.  Take 3/4", put on roller first and press down on area it meets roller with about 1/3 of the tape hanging over the  channel.  Then with a credit card and left hand you can press the tape up and under the lip of the channel.  Avoid creases and keep smooth by helping guide the mesh with the free hand thumb while the other hand and credit card press it around and underneath the inside edge of the channel.  You can also fold the mesh under and put a layer underneath to have a double layer of mesh on under the locking strip for a similar effect, only for fine mesh counts!  Not advisable under 200 tpi.  Of the two the tape is easier IMO>

Al

[DannyGruninger]

I just stretched up about 30 frames with murakami s mesh using the masking tape along the channel suggestion from Al..... After a couple weeks I'll let you guys know how the tape is holding up..... I know in the past I have always popped a few screens here and there while stretching because of a slight burr or whatever right along the locking stripe channel and with this tape method we didn't lose any during stretching..... So far so good but the chemicals will tell all