Glue Issues on S-Mesh Statics

[sqslabs]

I've had some S-Mesh statics in production for a bit now, and have lost some along the way but chalked it up to my own mishandling.  I had noticed early on that the glue wasn't holding in certain areas of the frames but didn't think much of it, and used Polyken tape on a couple just in case.  Then the other day one popped with the Polyken on it, and I noticed it looked like it was a result of the glue giving way. Once I went back through the older ones, I saw that the majority of them looked like they had also failed as a result of the glue.  None of this is happening on press, but while the screens are sitting waiting to be reclaimed, coated, etc.  I've attached some photos for reference.

I've never had this happen with any other static frames, and just want to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong here to cause this.  Is there a possibility that the dip tank could be breaking down the glue?  Anyone else having similar issues?  These frames are 150 and 225.

[GraphicDisorder]

Ugh... let's hope that's a isolated thing, just put 42 of these into production.

[Prosperi-Tees]

i have about 30 frames that have done this. Not s-mesh though. I finally figured out that it was the back clamps on my manual that would nick the edge of the mesh and that would eventually cause it to release from there. Just started building up my inventory of s-mesh static and have had two let go. One because I accidentally hit it up against a sharp edge that caused a small hole near the center and it ripped after about 5 minutes. The other was due to the back clamp on the manual when I was printing tags and sliding the screen over for each size and not having taped the edge. Going to send out 20 of my static's to get remeshed with s-mesh, hopefully I can be more careful. I am hurting bad in the screen dept. Used to have about 50 screens and now down to about 15 which royally sucks.

[Frog]

Some chemicals are not great with some glues.
let's get a chem guy here to spell it out accurately.

I don't believe that the switch to S mesh is an issue.

[sqslabs]

Some chemicals and not great with some glues.
let's get a chem guy here to spell it out accurately.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well.  Here's the chemistry I've used over the course of using these screens:

Dip Tank - CCI Gemzyme / Franmar One Step Clear
Screen Wash - Franmar Bean-e-doo
Haze Remover - ICC 858
Degreaser - Franmar D-Grease

I also realize the glue coming off could very well be a side effect of mishandling and the glue being weak and going along for the ride when the screens popped.  So in that case, the screens would have popped either way.  But if there's a way to give the ones I have left a bit more life, I'd be willing to make a change in chemistry to do so.

[Evo]

How long does the haze remover dwell on the screen? Using 701, if I let it sit for more than a minute, it could soften the mesh adhesive on some frames.

[jsheridan]

the glue used to hold the mesh is a cryo type, think crazy glue and an activator is used to harden it quickly, if whoever is making the frames (think young 20's kid making 10-11 bucks an hour) is using to much activator then the glue gets brittle and will just pull away after some time.

I'm not sure what it was, but a decal shop I worked in used some type of double sided tape that even after months of use, was a PIA to remove the old mesh before we sent them out for re-mesh.

[Frog]

I also realize the glue coming off could very well be a side effect of mishandling and the glue being weak and going along for the ride when the screens popped.  So in that case, the screens would have popped either way.  But if there's a way to give the ones I have left a bit more life, I'd be willing to make a change in chemistry to do so.

The kind of failures that I see due to chemical incompatibility, and/or age, look more like your top picture. Intact mesh suddenly losing tension as it breaks away from one end. Often happens to me as they are sitting in the sun, so I'm pretty sure that heat hastens the effect.

And John, I believe that there are two different types of glue in use.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I've noticed a rough edge to the s-mesh static's at the edge of the frame where the glue overlaps the open mesh. Not sure if that is an issue or not, doubt it, just my observation

[screenprintguy]

Any statics we have left we had started using Melray to re-stretch. After the glue hardens, the coat the glued area with a lacquer so this issue never happens, never pop loose in the sun, and that glued area can take a beating in reclaiming and the lacquer coating protects the glue and the glued mesh. I haven't used Spot Color supply yet, but I think they do that too. I have a load to get re-done and will check with Scott over there to see if they do that. Tubelite dose no protective coating and this happens to their re stretches pretty fast.

[sqslabs]

How long does the haze remover dwell on the screen? Using 701, if I let it sit for more than a minute, it could soften the mesh adhesive on some frames.

I let the haze remover sit while I pull the next screen out of the dip tank and set it up to drip the liquid back into the tank.. 20-30 seconds max.  And its only in the image area of the frame and not really near the edges..

Any statics we have left we had started using Melray to re-stretch. After the glue hardens, the coat the glued area with a lacquer so this issue never happens, never pop loose in the sun, and that glued area can take a beating in reclaiming and the lacquer coating protects the glue and the glued mesh.

I have Melray statics that are years old and have never had any issues with them either.  Top notch screens for sure.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  For those who do have the same screens, is the glue green on yours as well?

[Frog]

You should be able to get the glue type information from the screen people.

Then, you could check on chemical compatibility issues with the chem company techs.

A few years back, CCI listed a dozen seemingly similar cleaning products, with some pointed out as not being good with certain glued frames.
They have since pared down their selection, but I'm sure still have similar information available, as I'm also sure other chem manufacturers would as well.

[mimosatexas]

I haven't had any of mine release like the first images yet, but I have had a few pop like your last image, right along the interior edge of the frame.  Those popped over a hot weekend, no emulsion on them and freshly reclaimed.  Not sure if the heat caused it, but it seems like it played a role.  I have around 30-40 of these now and use each one a couple times a week recently.  They have held up very well as far as the glue is concerned.

I have had about 5 of my xenon frames release like this over the past few years though.

[tonypep]

My money is that the glue is 2 part cyanoacrylate. Fast but not as good as laquer based adhesives.

[DannyGruninger]

I have around 30 s mesh statics in production and most of them look like these..... Glue is failing on them... In my shop we do not use any haze remover at all and our chemicals are pretty tame so I have a feeling it's more or less a problem with the process and/or glue they are using..... We beat up our screens pretty good but I have some other statics that have years of printing on them without the glue failing like these. S mesh statics do not look like the hot ticket in MY shop, I prefer our newmans with s mesh on them