Printing speed x squeegee angle / squeegee pressure or otherwise known as e=mc2

[Gilligan]

Just trying to get some ideas on what some of you guys are running when it comes to autos.

Obviously what works for one doesn't work for another directly but we aren't even sure where the starting point is... ok, well, where the next step is.

Not clearing white ink, what should we try first?
Not clearing blue ink, what should we try first?
Everything clearing fine but print not quite opaque enough...
Everything clearing fine and print looks good... could we be doing it faster or with LESS ink and still get better results/hand?

We are learning their are LOTS of variables to play with now that we have the auto... just no real direction known.  You know how it feels right?

If it matters, we are running a Saber with AC heads.

[jvanick]

Gonna be watching this, as this has always been a challenge for us.

my eureka moment when we shifted to chopper heads was a bit of angle and way lower pressure than you think.  most prints now are 30 PSI or less (except for discharge, where we kick it up to 40ish).

70/90/70 squeegee for most prints... and when I have a white that's not fully clearing, slowing down the squeegee is the first thing I try... I try to increase pressure as my last resort...

I may not be doing it "right", but that's what seems to work best for me.

Always open to suggestions to better my work tho

[ebscreen]

Just trying to get some ideas on what some of you guys are running when it comes to autos.

Obviously what works for one doesn't work for another directly but we aren't even sure where the starting point is... ok, well, where the next step is.

Not clearing white ink, what should we try first?
Not clearing blue ink, what should we try first?
Everything clearing fine but print not quite opaque enough...
Everything clearing fine and print looks good... could we be doing it faster or with LESS ink and still get better results/hand?

We are learning their are LOTS of variables to play with now that we have the auto... just no real direction known.  You know how it feels right?

If it matters, we are running a Saber with AC heads.

Just generally speaking, but if you AREN'T clearing, and you are sure that's it, flood harder, more upright squeegee angle, harder/sharper squeegee, slow down,
lower mesh, add pressure, in that order.

If you are clearing and it's not opaque enough, speed up (like way up) decrease pressure, lower angle, softer squeegee, lower mesh. If an ink IS clearing
but ISN'T opaque it's usually a thin bodied transparent ink, and those generally like fast speeds and soft squeegees and a super light touch.


These are all generalizations but for the first time auto-er they should help get you where you are going. Don't shoot flaming arrows please.

[Homer]

what squeegie duro you using? we use harder for the thicker inks or detail. we have narrowed down to 3 duros, 60/75/60 for wb/dc - 70/90/70 for day to day stuff and 75/90/75 for less ink deposit/ detailed stuff. more angle = more deposit to some degree. If you choose too soft of duro and have too much angle, it will skim over the ink instead of pump it. want more ink deposit = speed up the stroke... I didn't believe it either until we tested it....make sure your inks are to temp as well....less ink = harder blade and/or stand it up more..

of course -the VERY first place to start is tight screens. ain't nuttin pumpin' through a loose mesh. and choosing a mesh count is way more important now that you can't simply stroke it again like you could manually...knock it off Moose, I can already hear a wiseass comment from you...


I have a chart someplace near the press with all sorts of suggestions copied from the guys here, I'll see if I can find it and I'll send you my notes...


**this works for us a majority of the time, as always there are many exceptions to the rule**

by the way, I just saw the V squeegies yesterday at a shop I visited and I can not believe the angle on those things...I've never seen one before...so there's a deal where everything i think I know gets tossed out the window.

[Rockers]

We do whites on a 150-S with a 75/90/75 at around 15 degree angle. Pressure around 25 PSI. Speed, well how can I say, probably some medium speed setting;)

[Gilligan]

Man this is awesome stuff!!!  I know nothing is really concrete as there are so many damn variables but this is exactly what I was looking for.  Some steps and some cause and effect to go along with the steps!

Homer, that would be awesome if you could dig that up... You should have my email but if not shoot me a pm.  I realized shortly after getting the auto all those posts I had been reading all these years, knowing one day it would apply to me, didn't mean much since I neglected to take notes on so much of it (kicking myself now!)

Also, I would have added squeegee durometer to the equation but the subject line wouldn't fit any more into my joke.

We have the 70 stuff that came with it, a fair amount of 55/90/55 (I think that's the numbers) from techsupport. Loaded one holder with it but we haven't had a chance to play with it, well, we did on a 100% poly job but it was backfiring.  As I can now see, we had too much angle and it was skidding along (strangest looking thing with that Rutland Super Poly), I played with a few variables real quick, but the job had to get done ASAP so my guy kicked me off and just got it done with the 70.  We also have a 60 or 64 or something crazy from those monster scoop coater guys, haven't loaded that up.  Need to get some standard triple stuff, we had some for the manual that came with the press and was still in good shape so we don't have any rolls of it laying around like we do the other odd stuff.

Also want to get some beveled (is Sonny calling my phone already?!) and some smiling jacks and such, maybe I can see what other secret weapons Alan has been hoarding.

We are also using Meteor White from Green Galaxy and still digging it for the most part... It has the viscosity of a standard ink so when we have to use a 50/50 or Poly white we don't know what to do with ourselves.  Still funny to see white drooping down a screen that is standing up off press.

[Gilligan]

Oh, and we are all S-mesh with retens... We don't have many meshed up right now, but that is slowly changing!

[Rockers]

Oh, and we are all S-mesh with retens... We don't have many meshed up right now, but that is slowly changing!

The Murakami S mesh made such a difference for us. We are still in the middle of changing our Roller frames from roller mesh to Murakami S mesh.

[Gilligan]

Oh, and we are all S-mesh with retens... We don't have many meshed up right now, but that is slowly changing!

The Murakami S mesh made such a difference for us. We are still in the middle of changing our Roller frames from roller mesh to Murakami S mesh.

We were lucky, we went from crappy wood frames straight to newmans with s mesh almost right out of the box... Printed statics for only like 3-6 months, almost nothing if counting pcs/jobs as we were just starting.

[Printficient]

Also want to get some beveled (is Sonny calling my phone already?!) and some smiling jacks and such, maybe I can see what other secret weapons Alan has been hoarding.

Give me a call manana.
For those of you who don't know here is the order of squeegee
1 Double Bevel / Smiling Jack
2 Triple durometer

These make life easier.

Parameters to take into account in no particular order are screen type.  Ink type.  Off contact.  Reliability of press holding ever tighter tolerances.  General trouble shooting skills.  Ability to try it for yourself before discarding it out of hand.  Willingness to ask for help.  Willingness to toss out all preconceived notions. 

[Gilligan]

Like clockwork Sonny!

[ScreenPrinter123]

Maybe I can come by the shop the next time we visit my wife's parents and share what we do in various situations and we can both learn something.  Do you use M&R style squeegees?  I can bring some stuff with me to try if so.

[Gilligan]

That would be awesome!

Even if it's a weekend, I'll meet you and I'm sure Terry would as well... As long as he's not off being Spider-Man or Prince Charming.

[alan802]

That would be awesome!

Even if it's a weekend, I'll meet you and I'm sure Terry would as well... As long as he's not off being Spider-Man or Prince Charming.

Damn near choked on my frosted flakes on that last part. 

I don't have anything to add to what has already been said.  Opacity is directly affected by pressure and speed (as well as a few other variables) but you're using the right mesh and the ink is fine, so you need to focus on getting your pressure right with speed and those 2 will change with one another.  Squeegee is important but if it's a sharp edge and whether it's a triple, double bevel, smiling jack, etc. they will all work...some just slightly better than others. 

I've got all kinds of experimental blades that work great but I don't know that Joe is going to focus on the textile market much because it's so wishy-washy with what blades work in which shop.  There are so many good print shops out there that can benefit from Joe's blades but there are those that don't have luck with them that I know are good printers which complicates the ability for Joe to sell enough blades to make it worth while.  I've got a few blades that are flat out amazing with white ink but I know if those blades got into a shop that didn't do things the way we do they would be a disaster.

[ScreenPrinter123]

If Brian and I can't find a free weekday then I'll let you know the next weekend I am coming your way.  And if Terry is role playing I may have to check that out as opposed to the Sabre!