i-Image in the house!

[GraphicDisorder]

It's crazy to me how many people haven't let go of Sam still. Dwelling on a guy that was clearly embellishing seems odd. It's interesting that his over all point remains true, CTS/DTS is something that will save you time in ways you hadn't considered.  This has been said by about anyone that has bought one on this board.  Each person that has bought one are saying they wouldn't live without one now. That's a powerful statement.  I know I have. Next week ill find out how much so.

So I ask, when one of your peers or a group of them now are saying "this is something we can't live without", are you paying attention or are you still spending time convincing yourselves it's not time yet?

[bimmridder]

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm trying to help others make the best decision for their company. Many times I will say, "this is what works in my shop". CTS is one of those things. We have been using it for over ten years. It is so important to us that we have 2 machines, even though we only need to run one. The first one was paid off many years ago, and we felt we needed a second unit for back up. That's how vital it is IN MY SHOP. Am I a believer. Yes. So much so that we can't fathom a single day without one. Overkill? Not in my eyes. But are you sold on it and ready? There is only ONE person that can make that decision. 

[Gilligan]

Brandt, that's a far cry... No one has brought up Sam and his ROI claims for a long time... It's relevant to the discussion.  That's like never bringing up any fact of history because we should have "let it go by now".

[GraphicDisorder]

Brandt, that's a far cry... No one has brought up Sam and his ROI claims for a long time... It's relevant to the discussion.  That's like never bringing up any fact of history because we should have "let it go by now".

Ya let's go to the extreme and never talk about history.  /sarcasm.

[Homer]

what are the approx dimensions of this machine? how much room do you need to have to work around it?

Why did you choose the M&R model vs the other brands available? beside the kickass CS you get with anything M&R...

Just curious as I have to do some due diligence here...I know next to nothing about  DTS machines except that I need one sooner rather than later....but I need to know why I need this model vs others.

[bulldog]

I'm sure some people will have varying opinions on this but *I* think ROI is irrelevant if you have the funds to pay for something and it makes life easier for you. If you have to figure out how you're going to make a payment for something then chances are you don't need it no matter how good the ROI is.

Do I think CTS is awesome? Yes. Would it help me? Yes. Can I afford it? Not yet.

And, also, for me...I would rather have an Eco-Tex and Uni-kote before a CTS. The functions those two machines perform would solve my biggest bottlenecks.

Anyway, congrats to you Brandt, it's an awesome feeling anytime you can get some new gear!

[alan802]

Would some of you CTS guys at least agree that a shop doing about 6-7 repeat jobs out of every 10, and a shop that sets up a 6 color job in about 8 minutes (using film generated screens and a modified triloc that doesn't use carrier sheets) will NOT see the same benefits as a shop that takes 30 minutes to setup a 6 color job, with or without a decent preregistration system?  LIKE NOT EVEN CLOSE? 

My comments aren't meant as a slight to CTS and those of you that have them.  It's like you want me to admit something I don't have a problem admitting but when I ask a question it get's no answer, only blowhard wise-ass comments trying to argue something I'm not trying to argue about. 

Hey, I'd love to be able to buy equipment and not have to worry about what it costs or how much I was going to use it, but that's not a reality that most people get to live like Brandt so we play the cards we're dealt.  So if me using math, spreadsheets and ROI offends some of you and it's stupid and without "logic", then oh well. I think the quality, volume and efficiency that this shop operates at is all the proof I need to back my statements.  And I'm not arguing that most CTS users don't really see huge gains in every aspect of production either, I'm simply saying our production speaks for itself and there is good reason why we do the amount of work we do with one auto and 3 guys but nobody will ever recognize that because we simply don't have a CTS yet.  I don't understand why Brandt thinks I'm arguing against CTS technology or against guys that bought them.  I'M SAYING THAT SRI HAS MANAGED TO DO JOBS QUICKLY WITHOUT A CTS.  If you have the money for one, buy one, buy two, I know it will help you, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to what this shop achieves without it.  I do have opinions on smaller shops buying them when it comes to the numbers and how it pertains to whether or not it's a good "business decision" but I also have never said anything negative about making jobs easier and what that means in a production environment if you buy one just for quality of worklife.  If you want to spend $50K to save an hour a week, who am I to say you're stupid?  Just don't tell me I don't know jack because I use math, numbers, ROI spreadsheets because I do have a problem with that.  No amount of statements from CTS users will ever convince me that a small shop, that may or may not do a lot of repeat jobs, will benefit financially from adding a CTS when they could buy a triloc, modify it and see setups as fast as we see.  There will be benefits, but from a strict business decision standpoint, there are/is at least one better option.  There is no better option for increasing production efficiency than a CTS when you don't look at the price of the machine.  If you're doing 10 jobs a week and can make the payment on a CTS, it's none of my business if you buy it or not.  But, if you're a shop that wants to increase your setup times, CTS is a fantastic option, or you could do what we did.  With film, I setup a 4 color sim process job for the pound for pound champ, in 5 minutes and one test print, and just me doing the setup.  I did it without a CTS.  We had to print out film and burn the screens traditionally, and on that job we could have saved more than a few minutes, but not 30 like some shops might see.  Now do you want to start putting in all the numbers for the repeat jobs we do?  Didn't think so. 

And I know some of you will think this logic is super gay, but there is nobody, not Dirk, not Danny, maybe Dave, that can convince me that we will see MUCH MORE than a 30% increase in overall efficiency and a production capacity increase of about 35-40%.  Those numbers are nothing to scoff at either, they're actually HUGE for a shop our size in my opinion.  BUT, we're talking about dropping $70-80K to reach those numbers, with a $40K machine our numbers won't be as significant as above.  We could increase one of those numbers well beyond that by buying a second auto, but at a much higher overhead and likely a loss of efficiency than a CTS would do which would actually be lowering our overhead.  But if you think you'll convince me that we'll see a lot more than that because people say that they'll NEVER EVER go back to using film, my brain doesn't work that way.  I can't drop $70K because really good print shops (ran by guys I respect a lot) tell me they absolutely love their CTS and they'll never use film ever again.  Why doesn't that compute with you Brandt?  You always argue that nobody knows how your shop operates and nobody can tell you what to do or how to do it, yet you are a hypocrite when it comes to this argument and have no respect for an opinion you don't share and have to drop smartass comments meant to lure people into an argument.     

And it's funny how nobody wants to bring up something that will not help their argument and claim that it's not news and those of us that do bring it up can't let go of the past.  Is there a moratorium on talking about Sam now?  What's the big deal?

The only guys that really understand where I'm coming from are the MHM and Sroque guys, wonder why that is?  The CTS argument doesn't really peak the interest of the MHM and Sroque crowd as much as it does others.  It's still a good option but for whatever reason it's not as big of a deal. 

[alan802]

Wow, sorry, didn't realize it was that long.  Been typing and running back and forth in and out of production since 5:30 so it didn't really seem like a novel until I posted.  Oh well, that should be all I type about this today since we have 12 jobs to do today.

[GraphicDisorder]

what are the approx dimensions of this machine? how much room do you need to have to work around it?

Why did you choose the M&R model vs the other brands available? beside the kickass CS you get with anything M&R...

Just curious as I have to do some due diligence here...I know next to nothing about  DTS machines except that I need one sooner rather than later....but I need to know why I need this model vs others.

It's a pretty big dude, not had time to measure it yet, but ill try to do that if nobody else chimes in.

I trust M&R, thats why I bought it from them.  I believe Danny had the Lawson unit and wasn't as happy with it as the M&R, so that helped ease that choice too.  Ive got enough M&R equipment now to know that they are there when I need them unlike say Barudan or SWF is for us on the embroidery side.  Even though they both build great equipment when I need them its not near as fast a process. 

This was a impulse buy for us basically.

[Homer]

haha, an impulse buy for me is a blue gatorade over a red one....

I don't think I would want the Lawson based on issues with CS, but I still want to know it's feature and failures vs the M&R machine. chances are very high I would pull the trigger on M&R, but I like to buy something and not be sold something, if that makes sense. same with the douthitt unit..sup with that one?

[GraphicDisorder]

Would some of you CTS guys at least agree that a shop doing about 6-7 repeat jobs out of every 10, and a shop that sets up a 6 color job in about 8 minutes (using film generated screens and a modified triloc that doesn't use carrier sheets) will NOT see the same benefits as a shop that takes 30 minutes to setup a 6 color job, with or without a decent preregistration system?  LIKE NOT EVEN CLOSE? 

My comments aren't meant as a slight to CTS and those of you that have them.  It's like you want me to admit something I don't have a problem admitting but when I ask a question it get's no answer, only blowhard wise-ass comments trying to argue something I'm not trying to argue about. 

Hey, I'd love to be able to buy equipment and not have to worry about what it costs or how much I was going to use it, but that's not a reality that most people get to live like Brandt so we play the cards we're dealt.  So if me using math, spreadsheets and ROI offends some of you and it's stupid and without "logic", then oh well. I think the quality, volume and efficiency that this shop operates at is all the proof I need to back my statements.  And I'm not arguing that most CTS users don't really see huge gains in every aspect of production either, I'm simply saying our production speaks for itself and there is good reason why we do the amount of work we do with one auto and 3 guys but nobody will ever recognize that because we simply don't have a CTS yet.  I don't understand why Brandt thinks I'm arguing against CTS technology or against guys that bought them.  I'M SAYING THAT SRI HAS MANAGED TO DO JOBS QUICKLY WITHOUT A CTS.  If you have the money for one, buy one, buy two, I know it will help you, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to what this shop achieves without it.  I do have opinions on smaller shops buying them when it comes to the numbers and how it pertains to whether or not it's a good "business decision" but I also have never said anything negative about making jobs easier and what that means in a production environment if you buy one just for quality of worklife.  If you want to spend $50K to save an hour a week, who am I to say you're stupid?  Just don't tell me I don't know jack because I use math, numbers, ROI spreadsheets because I do have a problem with that.  No amount of statements from CTS users will ever convince me that a small shop, that may or may not do a lot of repeat jobs, will benefit financially from adding a CTS when they could buy a triloc, modify it and see setups as fast as we see.  There will be benefits, but from a strict business decision standpoint, there are/is at least one better option.  There is no better option for increasing production efficiency than a CTS when you don't look at the price of the machine.  If you're doing 10 jobs a week and can make the payment on a CTS, it's none of my business if you buy it or not.  But, if you're a shop that wants to increase your setup times, CTS is a fantastic option, or you could do what we did.  With film, I setup a 4 color sim process job for the pound for pound champ, in 5 minutes and one test print, and just me doing the setup.  I did it without a CTS.  We had to print out film and burn the screens traditionally, and on that job we could have saved more than a few minutes, but not 30 like some shops might see.  Now do you want to start putting in all the numbers for the repeat jobs we do?  Didn't think so. 

And I know some of you will think this logic is super gay, but there is nobody, not Dirk, not Danny, maybe Dave, that can convince me that we will see MUCH MORE than a 30% increase in overall efficiency and a production capacity increase of about 35-40%.  Those numbers are nothing to scoff at either, they're actually HUGE for a shop our size in my opinion.  BUT, we're talking about dropping $70-80K to reach those numbers, with a $40K machine our numbers won't be as significant as above.  We could increase one of those numbers well beyond that by buying a second auto, but at a much higher overhead and likely a loss of efficiency than a CTS would do which would actually be lowering our overhead.  But if you think you'll convince me that we'll see a lot more than that because people say that they'll NEVER EVER go back to using film, my brain doesn't work that way.  I can't drop $70K because really good print shops (ran by guys I respect a lot) tell me they absolutely love their CTS and they'll never use film ever again.  Why doesn't that compute with you Brandt?  You always argue that nobody knows how your shop operates and nobody can tell you what to do or how to do it, yet you are a hypocrite when it comes to this argument and have no respect for an opinion you don't share and have to drop smartass comments meant to lure people into an argument.     

And it's funny how nobody wants to bring up something that will not help their argument and claim that it's not news and those of us that do bring it up can't let go of the past.  Is there a moratorium on talking about Sam now?  What's the big deal?

The only guys that really understand where I'm coming from are the MHM and Sroque guys, wonder why that is?  The CTS argument doesn't really peak the interest of the MHM and Sroque crowd as much as it does others.  It's still a good option but for whatever reason it's not as big of a deal.

Holy crap that's a lot going on in there. I dont have that much time.  So here is quick reply.

Ive basically only said that ROI doesn't tell the full story and guys with bigger shops than you and me and others say that they can not and will not run with out one and I think that's something SOME of you need to consider strongly outside your ROI sheet.  Nothing wrong with running ROI... I just think some of you don't consider the full picture. Which is what I have said since back when Sam was embellishing and we all knew it.  Sam's not off limits it just seems like old hat to me to bring him back into every CTS/DTS talk when nobody is really putting weight into his numbers to start with. I only agreed with him that it was likely a large game changer for MANY shops. That doesn't mean all... 

Every shop is different of course.  We do repeats of course, but some weeks zero jobs are repeats, some just a few jobs.  Some weeks all of them. I know for us I feel like in OUR situation we can almost reprint films and re-line them up faster than we can dig them outta our mess of films. Yes we could fix that mess but I could also just not spend the time on that and buy a CTS and never have to worry about that again. I can then put a monkey on the task of printing directly to the screens and free up Shelly whos FAR better used somewhere else in the shop for that amount of time and that number would be real hard to put in a ROI itself.

As far as luring people into a argument not exactly.  I think some of you take debating a bit too personal.  Additionally I see a lot of that on the other side as well.  But that's OK, if I bite on one of those comments then I am just as much to blame as the next guy, no different than the other way around. It takes 2.....  I know by some of the PM's I get that I am not alone in that belief. I know from one side the perspective I am sure is different... it still takes 2. 

Have a good day, we just have 5 jobs today, but 3 are hoodies with 3 locations, not looking forward to that.

[jvanick]

I saw the difference in Danny's prints between the Lawson and the M&R (heck I may have seen his old lawson as well)

I will say that there seems to be a big step up between prints that were generated on the old unit to the new unit.  Plus, I believe that Danny wrote on the note to Rich that he set the print up that I saw without touching a single micro.  -- Nice print BTW, I love your use of the white stripe around the art to make it look 3d.  (and the US/14 on the bouy)

I'm preparing to write the check on one for our shop... here's several things that have gone through our heads:

1. setups will be MUCH faster...
2. film takes a long time to print, then move, then image, etc.
3. if we use permanently blocked out screens, and don't need to micro much if at all, I bet we can get away with never using registration marks or anything else to tape.  So we save the $$$ in tape cost.
4. Film does cost money... I figured out the other day that we go through rougly $150-$200 in film and ink EVERY month.
5. even if you're fast, registering a film onto the screen takes additional time.

on a 4 or 5 color tight registration job, today it takes us 40-50 minutes to set that job up on press.  if I can set that same job up in 5 or 10 minutes max, now we can print that many more jobs.

PLUS, less training for the screen room operator.

I'm sure there's other benefits that I'll realize once we start using it, but those are my thoughts right now.

[IntegrityShirts]

Would some of you CTS guys at least agree that a shop doing about 6-7 repeat jobs out of every 10, and a shop that sets up a 6 color job in about 8 minutes (using film generated screens and a modified triloc that doesn't use carrier sheets) will NOT see the same benefits as a shop that takes 30 minutes to setup a 6 color job, with or without a decent preregistration system?  LIKE NOT EVEN CLOSE? 

My comments aren't meant as a slight to CTS and those of you that have them.  It's like you want me to admit something I don't have a problem admitting but when I ask a question it get's no answer, only blowhard wise-ass comments trying to argue something I'm not trying to argue about. 

Hey, I'd love to be able to buy equipment and not have to worry about what it costs or how much I was going to use it, but that's not a reality that most people get to live like Brandt so we play the cards we're dealt.  So if me using math, spreadsheets and ROI offends some of you and it's stupid and without "logic", then oh well. I think the quality, volume and efficiency that this shop operates at is all the proof I need to back my statements.  And I'm not arguing that most CTS users don't really see huge gains in every aspect of production either, I'm simply saying our production speaks for itself and there is good reason why we do the amount of work we do with one auto and 3 guys but nobody will ever recognize that because we simply don't have a CTS yet.  I don't understand why Brandt thinks I'm arguing against CTS technology or against guys that bought them.  I'M SAYING THAT SRI HAS MANAGED TO DO JOBS QUICKLY WITHOUT A CTS.  If you have the money for one, buy one, buy two, I know it will help you, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to what this shop achieves without it.  I do have opinions on smaller shops buying them when it comes to the numbers and how it pertains to whether or not it's a good "business decision" but I also have never said anything negative about making jobs easier and what that means in a production environment if you buy one just for quality of worklife.  If you want to spend $50K to save an hour a week, who am I to say you're stupid?  Just don't tell me I don't know jack because I use math, numbers, ROI spreadsheets because I do have a problem with that.  No amount of statements from CTS users will ever convince me that a small shop, that may or may not do a lot of repeat jobs, will benefit financially from adding a CTS when they could buy a triloc, modify it and see setups as fast as we see.  There will be benefits, but from a strict business decision standpoint, there are/is at least one better option.  There is no better option for increasing production efficiency than a CTS when you don't look at the price of the machine.  If you're doing 10 jobs a week and can make the payment on a CTS, it's none of my business if you buy it or not.  But, if you're a shop that wants to increase your setup times, CTS is a fantastic option, or you could do what we did.  With film, I setup a 4 color sim process job for the pound for pound champ, in 5 minutes and one test print, and just me doing the setup.  I did it without a CTS.  We had to print out film and burn the screens traditionally, and on that job we could have saved more than a few minutes, but not 30 like some shops might see.  Now do you want to start putting in all the numbers for the repeat jobs we do?  Didn't think so. 

And I know some of you will think this logic is super gay, but there is nobody, not Dirk, not Danny, maybe Dave, that can convince me that we will see MUCH MORE than a 30% increase in overall efficiency and a production capacity increase of about 35-40%.  Those numbers are nothing to scoff at either, they're actually HUGE for a shop our size in my opinion.  BUT, we're talking about dropping $70-80K to reach those numbers, with a $40K machine our numbers won't be as significant as above.  We could increase one of those numbers well beyond that by buying a second auto, but at a much higher overhead and likely a loss of efficiency than a CTS would do which would actually be lowering our overhead.  But if you think you'll convince me that we'll see a lot more than that because people say that they'll NEVER EVER go back to using film, my brain doesn't work that way.  I can't drop $70K because really good print shops (ran by guys I respect a lot) tell me they absolutely love their CTS and they'll never use film ever again.  Why doesn't that compute with you Brandt?  You always argue that nobody knows how your shop operates and nobody can tell you what to do or how to do it, yet you are a hypocrite when it comes to this argument and have no respect for an opinion you don't share and have to drop smartass comments meant to lure people into an argument.     

And it's funny how nobody wants to bring up something that will not help their argument and claim that it's not news and those of us that do bring it up can't let go of the past.  Is there a moratorium on talking about Sam now?  What's the big deal?

The only guys that really understand where I'm coming from are the MHM and Sroque guys, wonder why that is?  The CTS argument doesn't really peak the interest of the MHM and Sroque crowd as much as it does others.  It's still a good option but for whatever reason it's not as big of a deal.

[blue moon]

as an MHM guy, I can see saving about 30 min (of press time) per day using the CTS (a good one). This would cover the cost of the unit and then some. We are at aprox $225/hour of production so we would gain about $100 per day in print time. Multiply that by 5 days and 4.3 weeks, it's about double the cost of the unit. This is simple math and even with our MHM registration unit, we would see that much time.
The less tangible is the new toy happiness factor for the screen guy, reduced anxiety over the screen quality and some speed gained in the screen department.

All that said and done, for the $70k (or even half of that), I can buy another press and generate about 30x what the CTS will bring. In our case, 2nd press will come first unless I succumb to the new shiny toy pressure that's been building up.

pierre

[GraphicDisorder]

Funniest thing ever posted about DTS.

LOL!!!!