Newbie question- is there a way to print Matsui OW red that's not pink?

[andyandtobie]

First, thanks to everyone who posts here, as this is my first post but I've already learned a lot from here as a lurker.  My wife and I are relatively new to all this, and just switched from Permaset to Matsui to get the longer open times, and because we can't get Permaset economically here in northern Idaho.  We just bought the Matsui Neo pigment kit and some 301W, 301M, 301C, undercoat binder, and softener.  We don't want to do discharge, due to health concerns because we're working in a very small shop.  We're trying to set up a run for 180 pieces on our manual, mixed shirt colors.  Screens are 230 mesh.  We've stirred up some RC colors for the white shirts and they seem fine.  We mixed OW colors to print with an underbase of 301W (P/F/P, flashed for 20 seconds) for the black and colored shirts, and the red seems kinda nasty.  With all that white from the 301M, we get a weak pastel color.  If I mix it as an RC it's red, but I have to P/F/P, otherwise it's just bright pink because of the transparency of the red, and even then it has kind of a crazy luminescent look, like it's obviously transparent red on white.  The RC red I mixed as an experiment by stirring 10% red pigment into 301C, rather than going with a Pantone formula.  We need to print this quickly, as our bill-paying money is tied up in the cost of the shirts, so we're going to do the red as an RC and P/F/P on the underbase, but I can't help but think I'm doing something wrong.  If anyone could help us out, we'd really appreciate it!  -Andy

[abchung]

We usually do print flash print.  But once we had a yellow that was too dark, so we print the yellow and printed the next colour wet on wet to make it lighter. So may be you can try the following:
Print the red and see how many pantone lighter it is, then mix a red that is darker.
Eg: If it is 2 pantone lighter, may be you can mix a colour that is 2 pantone darker.

[noortrd]

Underbase white and mix 301c and 301w with red.   Try also change some different red shade.

[jsheridan]

We don't want to do discharge, due to health concerns because we're working in a very small shop. 

i always wonder why people say this, it's not a hazard nor health concern when handled correctly. You print it wet, send down your dryer (that is vented to the outside) and you have a bright soft red print.

If your choice to run water based inks is due to the 'green and eco friendly' tag.. then I sure hope you understand it's not any safer than plastisol and requires the same disposal methods. contrary to popular thought, you can't just simply wash it down the drain as the ink contains pigments and binders just like plastisol does, the only difference is the medium is carried in.

As for that color, you can load up matsui pigments up to 25% as long as you use a binder like the fixer N

[mimosatexas]

Unless you have a zinc allergy and are curing the ink in a bathroom or eating the activator the discharge is not a health concern any more than the rest of the vapor that comes off a curing shirt...

[andyandtobie]

Thanks, guys!  I really appreciate the input.  You've got me sold on trying discharge, but for this order, 150 of the 180 pieces are 50/50 poly/cotton, so I guess I'll try to strengthen the red in the mix and p/f/p this time around.

[sqslabs]

If you're using standard red as a top coat on 301W, split the red ink into a few containers and leave it out uncapped for a weekend or so.  The more water you can get out of the ink, the more coverage you'll get out of it as a top coat. 

[abchung]

Thanks, guys!  I really appreciate the input.  You've got me sold on trying discharge, but for this order, 150 of the 180 pieces are 50/50 poly/cotton, so I guess I'll try to strengthen the red in the mix and p/f/p this time around.

Better check for dye migration before printing the whole lot.

[andyandtobie]

Thanks, Abchung!  I've actually got a gallon of the Matsui undercoat binder to block dye migration.  I've used it before without any trouble, then I read that you're supposed to mix it 50/50 with 301C.  So I printed test shirts with the mixture and they migrated badly, so I'll go back to scooping it straight out of the bucket.

Thanks to everyone else, too, you guys are great.  I know just enough to be dangerous to myself at this point, so all your input is really appreciated.