Press Pricing

[jvanick]

not sure of what models they are but I know M&R offers a 10/22 press, and I think that Workhorse in the Falcon line offers the same.. you could do flashing between every color if you could afford the electricity to do so LOL.

[GraphicDisorder]

Brandt, the Sabre can ALSO use standard roll in flash.  Again, you have the option to have your cake and eat it as well.  No other manufacture gives you that option.  By itself is it better?  That's a personal choice and guys with limited space might lean one way over the other.  Guys with unlimited space will do like Brad said and just get a larger press and eat the money.  Though that still does seem counter intuitive to pay for 16 PRINT heads to then NEVER use three of them.

Seems like putting rotors and calipers on your spare tire.

Brad, you are correct, what can I know about this topic... Doesn't stop one from having an academic discussion and I think we almost said the same thing.  Makes me wonder now, have you run an auto? :p

He doesn't have a space issue it sound like if he is considering 8/10, he listed a 6/8 also and in THAT context I would take the 8/10 and regular flashes over a 6/8 and flashbacks. 

I never said the flash back didn't have a place, but lets not act like it's without drawbacks....  Which is why I mentioned it. He may not have considered it....

[Gilligan]

If we are making this about the original poster than I can say with 100% certain that he has considered the draw backs as he has actually OWNED a Javelin AND Flash Backs... so there is no more better person to make that choice for himself, BUT himself.

I thought he was bringing this up for also the academic aspect of the discussion.

You said they seemed like an after thought... I simply said they were more forward thinking than a standard flash.  Lets face it, the flash is literally an after thought in screen printing's history as it came along after the press came along.

[Prosperi-Tees]

I was considering that comfortably you cant print a 6 color job on darks on a 8 color press where as the 6 color Sabre can do it albeit slower. I am thinking of all this thru the eyes of the small shop with a single operator so speed is not an issue. If I can do 250-300 pieces per hour with flashbacks in one rotation with one operator then I am more than happy with that.

[GraphicDisorder]

If we are making this about the original poster than I can say with 100% certain that he has considered the draw backs as he has actually OWNED a Javelin AND Flash Backs... so there is no more better person to make that choice for himself, BUT himself.

I thought he was bringing this up for also the academic aspect of the discussion.

You said they seemed like an after thought... I simply said they were more forward thinking than a standard flash.  Lets face it, the flash is literally an after thought in screen printing's history as it came along after the press came along.

Forward thinking only if you consider it saves a print head.  Not so forward thinking when you consider that for most people the reason they buy a auto to start with is to print much faster.  Yes I agree even with a flashback your out doing a manual printer easily..  However are we buying equipment for today, or for the future? 

You aren't really wrong in your thoughts, neither am I.  Everyone has to weigh those things.  I have no idea what press he had or didn't have. 

[cbjamel]

This MSRP from 9/27/13 :
Sportsman EX 20X20 10/8 = $57,250     +crate @ $925
Sportsman EX 20X20 12/10 = $71,100    + crate @ $1,050
OR

Sportsman EX 16X18 10/8 = $44,500     + crate @ $825
Sportsman EX 16X18 12/10 = $55,000    + crate @ $950
Hope it helps.
Shane

[Prosperi-Tees]

This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.

I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.

I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.

[GraphicDisorder]

This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.

I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.

I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.

Now your on the right track.

[cbjamel]

This is my thought process on the whole thing as it pertains to our shop.

I could upgrade our compressor for the current older 8 color Gauntlet and fix the issues on the press, mac valves, relevel etc etc at a cost of about 10K roughly and still have an older press that works great but doesn't have the functionality and control of a newer press.

I could sell the current press for about 10-12k and either pocket the
cash or put a down payment on a new press and have all the functionality
And control I could ever need and not have to upgrade the compressor.

If you look at the new one press they are like 8-15cfm a lot less so you could get by with a regular compressor and save some money get 5 hp probably with the chiller etc.
Just a thought.
Shane

[Gilligan]

He's also stated that he's only printed ONE 5 color job in his entire 5 years of printing.

[Prosperi-Tees]

If you look at the new one press they are like 8-15cfm a lot less so you could get by with a regular compressor and save some money get 5 hp probably with the chiller etc.
Just a thought.
Shane

That is my thought as we already have a 5hp compressor that would easily run any of the new servo/ac machines.

And Gilligan is right (1) 5 color job in 5 years and that was a struggle on the 8 color in one revolution. We are 99.5% 1-3 colors here and thats why the 6 color Sabre looks attractive, it can get a very rare 5-6 color job done when needed and the 1-3 color jobs with ease, functionality and control at a lesser price tag of the 8 and 10 color machines to get the same jobs done.

[Anatolhelp]

Pricing is always a good thing to have.....but a real conversation would be to speak about features and value. Just to name one.... The step back and multi step back program,  you can save the cost of an extra flash by flashing two colors with a single flash.   Save time and money!   

[jvanick]

wouldn't a revolver program be better tho than step back? 

[Anatolhelp]

wouldn't a revolver program be better tho than step back?

Not in my opinion...The step back program doesn't have to go all around the press.  Just step back one station and flash.   Saves lots of time. 

[prozyan]

Not in my opinion...The step back program doesn't have to go all around the press.  Just step back one station and flash.   Saves lots of time.

My personal experience is in most cases a revolver type program is faster than the step back with a full load.  In most, but not all.  In either case, I didn't think the time savings was extreme.