Donations = A mutual effort.

[Dottonedan]

Re; Handeling art donations.

After reviewing a post somewhere about someone needing some free art for a customer that would be considered a low income area customer base or non profit, I wondered if the printer taking the order is also providing services for free or discounted. Certainly not free, but how about discounted?

To give you a better picture, it's a bit hard to take when someone says "can you do this job for free as a donation since they are an inner city club" (meaning that they more than likely will not have that much money to pay for art). I can understand this and could agree to do something. I would be MORE willing if I was able to see your invoice where you charged X amount but gave them a decent discount yourself. Then I would be very happy to jump in and go in with you.

If the shop is charging a regular price...but want me to donate art. I see something wrong with that.
Donations = A mutual effort.

[Frog]

It's not just art.

Not to seem overly harsh, but many have heard my response to a call that begins with "We are a non-profit organization" I generally respond with, "I'm trying very hard to not be".

Likewise, I agree that the caller to you should indicate a team effort and start out with something like "We're donating the printing and just making the markup on the shirts and could you help as well?"

A large display of Chutzpah occurred about two weeks ago when I was left a message from a woman who had committed to hand painting four aprons to sell at a school auction. Two days before the auction she asked me to donate the printing.
By the time I responded, to tell her that no, I couldn't (wouldn't) she told me that it was okay because she had since called the folks who did the school shirts, and asked them! Well, duh!
I hear of this type of behavior on the boards constantly. We're not good (or cheap) enough to do the paying jobs, but can we help them out?

[dlac]

Now You tell me NO FREE ART... after 20+ years of giving art away... Cwap if I could sell art I can get rid of my sandwich board and take a shower... wait till the wifeee heres this
dlac

[Evo]

Not to seem overly harsh, but many have heard my response to a call that begins with "We are a non-profit organization" I generally respond with, "I'm trying very hard to not be".

My other response is, "then sell the shirts for what I'm charging you. Bingo, no profit for you to worry about."


Well, in not so many words anyway.

[Fresh Baked Printing]

Since when does non-profit mean they're broke? Unless I'm printing for Hmong refugees in Thailand, they have money, access to grants, corporate sponsorship with waaay deeper pockets than mine, etc.
While I might be a corporation in my own right, I don't have the bling signage to put on the stage and banners with my name plastered all over it.
I certainly don't mind giving or printing for causes I care about but what rubs me the wrong way is when the committee member will act like it's a great opportunity for ME to give them free stuff.
If the committee member made any attempt at all to nurture a relationship with my business and tell me a little bit about themselves, that would go along way for me considering giving for a cause I might just care about.
Instead the committee member is only out to show the board how slick they were that they got something for nothing.

[Artelf2xs]

Good 'ol Dot and his misspellings... I think he meant Donut art! All us Do-Nuts

[Sbrem]

Now You tell me NO FREE ART... after 20+ years of giving art away... Cwap if I could sell art I can get rid of my sandwich board and take a shower... wait till the wifeee heres this
dlac

One of my customers, when he was starting out, thought "I can't charge for art..." I told him, "We can, and do, so you'd better start charging for it, or you're going to fold before you get started." When a customer asks for something like that, I tell them to go ahead and do the art, and I won't have to charge them anything. They pick up on it, usually anyway.

[Command-Z]

This subject has come up in the past and I've said this all before, but not on this forum yet so here goes:

Non-profits, benefits and such have budgets for promotional materials. The people handling the promotions often want to get the best deal, but there's money in the jar for art, t-shirts, posters, whatever. They're just using that to get you to give them a good deal... who knows where the surplus money is going.

Some of my best repeat clients are annual fundraisers and they pay top dollar to get good art. They do this so they can sell more shirts and charge more for them.

Now, there are small outfits, like high school bake sales, car washes and the like that may not have a big budget, but most organized events and non-profit companies do. Non-profit organizations often have HUGE advertising budgets and even have CEOs and administrators that make triple-digit incomes. They just don't pay taxes on their income and the "profits" are shuffled around differently.

Don't be afraid to ask what the budget is. And don't let them tell you that putting your logo on the shirt is fair trade. You can't deduct work done for charities from your taxes.

If it's a cause you really believe in and you really want to help, go for it. But giving your work away probably means someone else is keeping money that was allotted for promotion.

[Artelf2xs]

means someone else is keeping money that was allotted for promotion.

Hear Hear Scott!

Well said ! Over the years, MDA, Easter Seals, & the March of Dimes to name a few have been my best clients! Hands down. they get great deals because they order in large quantity for several events throughout the year.

It is the smaller one's that are out to penny pinch. Every time there is a disaster here like a fire the eats a whole community..

 the phone rings with people wanting donations of shirts & printing. Sheesh, If I had a dime LOL

 My Bassett Hound came from a non profit rescue.... Many of you have seen the art I donate and we donate the shirts, printing and set ups in exchange for a small tagline and tax write off. We Love Dogs!

[Dottonedan]

Artelf,

Are you printing your own stuff now or are you working for someone?

[Artelf2xs]

Dan,

Doing sales, Billing, Customer service is Soooooooo not creative.... I Don't have the underwear to work for myself....

 I work for a small shop that has been around for as many years as I have been doing this. the owner is just a few years younger then me..... bought it right out of high school.
Why?

[Donnie]

One of my daughter's class mated was murdered by a scum bag who through acid in his face. I printed some memorial tees for her class. My phone rang off the wall. I wound up printing over 300 and never took a dime..until someone wanted to sell the same tees for a fund raiser for a memorial scholarship. I did those for costs.

[Command-Z]

So one of these aforementioned events that I do work for is up again, but my Client, the printer/middleman said the End Client, the fundraiser, didn't have the budget they normally pay me for design work.

I normally do an 8-color, highly detailed sim-process job, but this year there's only a couple hundred dollars in the budget. So I say sure, I can do a simple, clean 1 or 2 color retro-looking vector design that will still look cool and sell shirts. End client said no, they want the same level of work I'd done in the past and asked if I'd "work with them" on price.

I declined the job. Hated to say no to a good client and a good cause, but I explained that I can't afford to spend 20 plus hours (End Client makes LOTS of changes) and get less than minimum wage for my work. Clients who are paying full price would be compromised, since I'd have less time to do their work. It would end up costing me money, and as an artist, I can't deduct work done for charity from taxes.

Client really wanted to keep the job w/me, and I feel bad now that he has to look for an artist with the same skill level who is willing to do the job for their budget. I feel worse that there may be some desperate lowballer out there who might actually do it.

It's important that we artists and printers alike need to stick to our guns on pricing, ESPECIALLY in this economy. Food, gas and supplies aren't getting cheaper. Mortgages, rents, suppliers and utility companies aren't "working with us" on price. Why should it be the burden of the small business owner to take the cuts when big banks and corporations like Big Oil are making RECORD profits in a recession?

When you lower your prices out of desperation just to get work, you lower the tide for all boats.

End rant. Carry on.

[Dottonedan]

I feel ya Z.  Stick to'm.  (you're guns I mean).

I recently was asked by a customer who has at every time I've done work for them, asked for me to do the work much lower than I normally do and had stated how another artist always does the same work for about 1/3rd my cost. So they want me, but want the 1/3rd cost.  I did it once as a favor to help get him out of  a jam. Since then, every quote request came in with the same scenario. "I'm in a crunch and the customer wont pay big money" etc, etc.
I stuck to my guns and customer was mad at me.  "At ME" for not doing it for 1/3rd my normal price. This customer does not realize that just about 98% of all screen printers ARE getting customers that pay my prices. He's one of 3 printers in the last 4 years that "can't afford me".  That makes the price issue (an issue with him getting the right customers or not educating them on the standard cost)....or he's lying to me to make more money. I don't know what one. I'd prefer to think it's that he needs better customers.

It might be good to start some training for printers. Something that enables them or helps them to educate the customer.  A 10-20 hour job is going to cost something.  Do they want to put in 10-20 hours of labor for $5.00 per hour?  I doubt it.  I stepped in to Denny's today. My breakfast was $$12.55 + a tip and $50.00 to fill my tank up. I updated my tags for my two vehicles. $59.00 for one and $71.00 for the other. I had to wait in getting my boat and trailer tagged for next week due to a lack of funds.

The price of art should be going UP, not down.