Tri-Loc -- What went wrong?

[AndyD]

I bought a tri-loc used about two years ago and I have yet to have a job where I did not have to adjust the micros...for me, my set up, the tri loc gets me in the neighborhood but not exact registration...totally not knocking the tri loc...i like it and i know it works as it should...but in my experience with my used tri loc i have not had a perfectly registered mulit color job ever in my 2 yrs of using it...im envious of printers on here saying they get perfect reg's with their tri loc.

My set up is light table (of course)...3 loupes...nuarc MSP3140 exposure unit...chameleon 8/8 with side air clamps.

My steps:

I line up first film to centerline on light table...once aligned I tape the center of film to carrier sheet then each corner. (i will now try the suggestion of taping the back side too)

I then line up one color at a time to the first color i lined up on the light table..I dont stack my registrations..I do one at a time to the the initial one still on the light table

Transfer film/carrier sheets to 3140....when i install a film in the exposure unit i, run my fingers from the center of the pin, down the image to bottom of the film..then apply tape to that center at the bottom of film to glass to keep the film from MAYBE shifting during vacuum.

Drop blanket...vacumm..expose...(I do not use the thin ropes...no reason why really..my exposure unit didnt come with it (used) so i never looked into it..not sure if it would be a reason for losing registration on the press)

Install tri loc pallet on press..and i have to do a twist of the tri loc pallet because there is slight "play" when its installed...i can wiggle it ever so slightly...i have to twist it clockwise to make my screen center lines line up to my pallet center lines which i have to twist my pallets clockwise also...then clamp them into place.

load the screens one by one...

remove tri loc pallet..install printing pallet (clockwise twist)...

do a test print..OR i drop each screen onto my main apllet with the centerline..and see how the center reg marks fall..either way, something is always out.....ive printed more than enough jobs to go thru "what can be the root cause of this???" and thru time and process of elimination I just accept i won't have perfect reg's. I feel im on point with my pre-press steps....so im chaulking it up that its "a used tri loc" and maybe thru time the frame, metal stops, etc..etc lost their integrity maybe?...I dunno....but i still use it on every job because at least i know my frames are in exact position so that's good to know i guess because its good for my predetermined overall placement...I wonder if i could send it back to M&R and it can be "checked"??...or "re-aligned" if there is such a process?

my press and pallets are level..im talking "toperdo-levels-and-2-laser-levels-all-at-the-same-time-in-all-directions" level..pallets all same exact height...off contacts exact...everything is in place as it should be...i am fine tuned to the nth degree and ive yet to load a multi color job and just walk away from it without touching a micros....i actually challenge myself EVERYTIME with it..."This time I KNOW its dead on!!.I just know it!!!"....then line it up...STILL OFF!!! hahaha...this is just my personal experience with it..of course i can not speak for everyone else. ..im sure somewhere along the line its me and im doing something wrong but im following instructions exact everytime.

I will try taping the back side of the films now....im looking forward to it actually..something new to try.

oh..btw..my tri lock exposure frame is taped with black gorilla tape on all 4 sides on outside of frame and inside of frame (not interfering with the lay down of the screen to the glass)...it doesnt move...(but i have been thinking of removing that tape and using 10lbs double sided tape)..and i quadruple check screen frames are touching the 3 stops....i use aluminum square frames and roller frames..but i never mix the frames on jobs...when i print i use ONLY the aluminum frames for a job..or ONLY rollers for a job.

Give me or Andy DaSilva a call here at M&R. You are missing a few steps!

Hello Mark,
I would suggest that you do not tape the film to the glass, the reason for this is if the master frame does move slightly from the vacuum draw down the film should move with it.
If the tri-loc is not working we should be able to track down where it is failing.
I have a few more questions for you if you can give me a call when you get a chance. If it after hours my cel. # is in my signature.
 I will also e-mail you a few short videos so you can see what I am talking about.

[patfinn]

Here are the videos Andy was talking about.

You'll see that the one with one side taped that the film can actually move from the carrier sheet.

The other with both sides taped, you can see that both the carrier and film move together. that is what you want, you want the film and carrier sheet to be one piece.

Last video is of the movement in the master frame even when its taped down. If you tape the film to the glass, the film will not move with the master frame on the glass, which can cause mis-registration.

I would also suggest using a piece of twine, or something to put into the frame for vacuum. They are there to help the blanket achieve better vacuum.

[Mark @ Hurricane Printing]

just wanted to clarify something....i do not ALWAYS tape the film to the glass....if my scotch tape happens to be setting in my press area I will use it..if not then i dont tape....as im putting the film in the exposure unit im glancing around for the tape....its an after thought really...if i glance around and see it i use it...if i have to put a ratio on it id say out of every 10 jobs i maybe tape 2 or 3 of them to the glass.

but thanks for the emails and messages i received from my post...wasnt expecting that and i greatly appreciate it and one day, when I have the time to get into the details I will call you guys up....im always open to suggestions...i usually do my printing on the weekends or in the evenings of the weekdays being i have a full time job...so if i did contact anyone to go thru some steps it would be around those time frames.