WB/Discharge Mixing System

[sqslabs]

I'm just about tapped out of certain pigments with my Matsui PC matching system, and since I can no longer find the pigments anywhere, I'm considering all options when looking at a new system.  It will be used for both waterbased and discharge color mixing.  I understand there probably isn't a perfect matching system out there, but considering I'll have to create a new library from scratch, the closer it gets the better. 

So far on the list I have:
Matsui RC / Neo
CCI CMS
Rutland WB-99

Any experience with these or any other systems would be appreciated.  I'm looking to pull the trigger on a new system in the next couple days.

[tonypep]

Magna or Rutland would be a good start. CCI as well, although I don't have experience with their pigs. Most systems now offer formulation however the accuracy is debatable.

[TCT]

CCI is PAINFULLY easy. The one thing I do like about the Rutland system that has us "starting" to transition a bit is the recycle feature on their software.... Nice feature to have and if it works as advertised, could cut some waste.

[Homer]

Sericol is our favorite so far. pop the lid go... If you need to discharge, add some agent. Pigs were too messy and a general PITA. CCI is too hard for us to get way out here in NY....

[sqslabs]

Magna or Rutland would be a good start. CCI as well, although I don't have experience with their pigs. Most systems now offer formulation however the accuracy is debatable.

Thanks man, will check out the Magna line as well. 

In regards to accuracy, these days I just use the formulas as a rough guideline for WB and make adjustments on the fly during mixing.  For discharge I usually just wing it and mix in 100g batches until I hit the mark. The Matsui PC system is far from perfect, so my expectations definitely aren't too high on that side of things.

One thing I left out in my original post is the viscosity of the inks.  Matsui's bases are pretty runny, and something with a bit more body to it would be nice as well.  I recently tried some of the CCI D-Flo inks and was pleasantly surprised at how creamy they were, but haven't seen any of their other inks besides the D-White.

[sqslabs]

CCI is PAINFULLY easy. The one thing I do like about the Rutland system that has us "starting" to transition a bit is the recycle feature on their software.... Nice feature to have and if it works as advertised, could cut some waste.

Please tell me more of this recycle feature sir!  Are the bases around the same price for CCI/Rutland? 

Sericol is our favorite so far. pop the lid go... If you need to discharge, add some agent. Pigs were too messy and a general PITA. CCI is too hard for us to get way out here in NY....

Thanks, will check those out as well. 

I honestly wasn't expecting so many options.  I think there were two or three when I got my current system.

[ebscreen]

CCI Base, Rutland pigs.

We use the CCI Black pigment because the Rutland was chunking up on us too often, and we like
it, but if you are paying for shipping, you are largely shipping water.

The formulas are typically pretty accurate which is nice.

[TCT]

I keep meaning to give those Sericol inks a shot. Do the colors come out the same activated or unactivated?

CCI base, Rutland pigs, that's funny we were testing a similar mixture. Except we were using Matsui bright discharge base... That stuff is damn near white!

One thing I simply can't understand is why ALL Matsui bases and binders smell absolutely horrible! The Rutland and CCI ones are nice. The W-Base from CCI smells heavily of cherries!

Side note, if you are paying to ship inks or chemicals, you are doing something wrong

[ebscreen]

CCI ships free for us over $200 or so, not sure about folks across the country, ours typically comes on a pallet.

Don't let the smell fool you, I've heard it's an additive to mask the nasty nast they all smell like.

[TCT]

I'm fine with the additive to make it smell better, just wish Matsui would add it!

[sqslabs]

First thing I noticed when testing the CCI D-White was how good it smelled.  I spoke to an old school discharge guy a couple months ago who told me they used to add scents to the inks back in the day, interesting to see CCI implement it directly into the product.  No complaints here!

[ebscreen]

Rutland adds it to the white too. All I'm saying is don't go eating the stuff like I've seen some of my employees
tempted to do. Just because it smells good doesn't mean it tastes good!

[TCT]

All I'm saying is don't go eating the stuff like I've seen some of my employees
tempted to do. Just because it smells good doesn't mean it tastes good!

Oh of course not! That's just ridiculous it's much too runny to eat, we usually dink it like a protein shake! Adding too much activator can make you slow and grogy though!

[TCT]

So I just realized we kind of side stepped your original question/goal which I think would be a good resource. So for companies or options you had-


So far on the list there is:
-Matsui RC / Neo
-CCI CMS
-Rutland WB-99


-Wilflex
-Union(although from what I understand there is no mixing software)
-Virus
-Magna
-Sericol
-Permaset(I believe no DC or mixing software)
-Amex(coming to the states)
-Green Galaxy(currently a few RFU's and base, mixing software and pigments on their way)
-Simplex(SP?) Pigment system and mixing software on its way from my understanding
-Speedball


I know of a handful of large companies that essentially make their own(Tony did you say you guys do this?)


If I'm missing any hopefully others will chime in with them!

[Rockers]

First thing I noticed when testing the CCI D-White was how good it smelled.  I spoke to an old school discharge guy a couple months ago who told me they used to add scents to the inks back in the day, interesting to see CCI implement it directly into the product.  No complaints here!

They like doing that at CCI and not only to their inks. Their Orange emulsion smells  like oranges and their heavy duty block out has as well a slightly funny smell to it.