Need ideas how to fix this...

[jvanick]

I'd think that 70 would still have at least decent penetration..

How fast were you running the print stroke?

[Homer]

here's my test print. 110 was all I had at the moment, 60 duro, manual print. washed with a power washer for 3 minutes...slight movement of the ink in spots but nothing crazy....pretty nasty pic but you get the idea....I have a few test shirts in the wash machine, made one for myself... ..sooo looks like it wasn't the ink..

[Screened Gear]

Alex,

You have non rubber topped pallets, right? If so you should be using softer squeegees (55/90/55 65/90/65 and 60's and 70's) not for just waterbase. I learned this after a few trials. The harder the print surface the softer the squeegee. It works the other way also. For fleece you want a harder squeegee. For waterbase a soft squeegee prints better. The harder squeegee more detail thing does not really translate as much for waterbase. Water base inks have no body so they don't need the hard squeegee to shear or hold pressure.

This still does not sound like the answer to why these shirts washed out. No way. The print looks good before wash, even a soft print would stay more then the 10 to 25 percent these did. I guess a combo of soft print and under cure would do this but still does not feel right to me.

[sqslabs]

This still does not sound like the answer to why these shirts washed out. No way. The print looks good before wash, even a soft print would stay more then the 10 to 25 percent these did. I guess a combo of soft print and under cure would do this but still does not feel right to me.

I'd agree if we were talking about a 100% cotton tee, but keep in mind that these are 50/50.  Now this ink does perform outstanding on 50/50 as I saw in my own tests, but between that and the lack of pressure there may be a possibility that it was just the perfect storm.  And at this point, I think we should probably begin looking at a perfect storm scenario. Of course, that doesn't explain the similar results he got on cotton shirts, but if they were less faded than the blends were after a wash it might.  I haven't seen those.

As mentioned in another thread, I once had a run look great out of the dryer that faded drastically after a wash.  This was due to running a single stroke at likely not enough pressure.  And those were 100% cotton tees.  As discharge (and waterbased) ink prints completely different than plastisol and must be driven into the shirt as opposed to laid on top of the shirt, pressure is a good thing, and even dropping the off contact a bit closer to the shirt can be very helpful in achieving proper penetration.  If the ink is just laid on top of the shirt, there's a good chance that it might look great until it is washed due to the reaction still taking place with the top layer of fabric, but not much underneath.

Alex, I know you have been running S-Mesh at your shop and am wondering if there's a chance you've translated the lack of pressure required for a plastisol print to your discharge prints as well when using these screens.  The excellent wash results that you've seen in the past would contradict this, but I'm sure you don't want to leave any stone unturned in solving the problem, so I figured I'd ask after seeing the photo of the back of the prints that CCI posted.  What PSI are you running your discharge prints at?

[DannyGruninger]

Alex to try and save the printed shirts did you try heat pressing them with a decent amount of heat/pressure yet? I'd try it and do a wash test if you haven't already.

[TCT]

Well I think this brings this to a close....

Tried heat pressing like Danny suggested. 4 different ways, 1) With water 2) With Fixer 3) With Binder 4) With Penetrant. All were with 80psi, 375* for 50sec. and the results were all the same as the original. 

Now the question becomes, do we re print the 700 of them the same way, with just more pressure?!   

This hasn't been all bad, probably a good learning thread for people. I also REALLY appreciate all the help and advice everyone has given, really showcases what a great community this forum is! It will also be a added bonus if we can keep the CCI rep on the boards for advice and questions.

On one last note, I may have to give up printing and start teaching.... Thanks to Binkspot I have made more money off this post than screen printing!...


Binkspot- Too funny!!!!! I feel guilty depositing your check. Maybe I will and when we meet up in Chicago in a few weeks I can repay it with dividends in form of a few frosty beverages


Thanks again everyone!

[3Deep]

I know I learned something, no one told me that the activator had a shelf life of 6 months

darryl

[CCI]

I know I learned something, no one told me that the activator had a shelf life of 6 months

darryl

Sorry but I don't think this is the case. As it gets older the powder will smell more or may clump together if the container is opened and closed frequently  but should still work fine. In ideal conditions it will be ok for at least a year...probably longer

[ebscreen]

If anything the (unfortunately expensive) lesson here is that even if an ink discharges to the correct color
it doesn't necessarily mean it's correctly discharged. Always check penetration, and even better, wash test.
Even if it means a pressure wash test.

[KevWilso]

Shelf life "Minimum 6 months if stored in air tight container in a cool place"

I stand corrected on the two years.  I just went and looked it up.

it can and does last longer, than 6 months, which is why it says "minimum".  I just copy and pasted right off the data sheet of zfs.

[Binkspot]

You asked for $4 from anyone who read to the third page.

[sqslabs]

Sorry but I don't think this is the case. As it gets older the powder will smell more or may clump together if the container is opened and closed frequently  but should still work fine. In ideal conditions it will be ok for at least a year...probably longer

A year from when though?  If it's been sitting in my supplier's warehouse for 8 months, do I still get a year from when I receive it?  Or is it a year from when it gets to my shop?

I know that may be a bit of an extreme example, but I have had discharge powder lose its potency within a few months. 

[TCT]

You asked for $4 from anyone who read to the third page.

Yes I did, I bet you got a gold star in school for "listens well"

Seriously, that made my day!