Woody

[3Deep]

For you true artist, the ones that create from thin air and make it happen it's nice to get paid for your talent and have people look at a pc and say hey that's a Lemorris pc from just knowing the style of work.  One time in my life I love to draw and could do it all day, but something changed when I started doing it for money and had to draw stuff for customers, now I find myself more of a clipartjocky now trying to get it in and out fast, but still please the customer.  Having a true artist that loves the pen and ink like you Lemorris and a few others on here to do work for us, my hats off to you guys!!!!

Darryl

[lemorris]

It's all relative my man.

I imagine you eat much better than me.

Hats off to you.

:)

[JohnRoberts]

One time in my life I love to draw and could do it all day, but something changed when I started doing it for money and had to draw stuff for customers, now I find myself more of a clipartjocky now trying to get it in and out fast, but still please the customer.

I think 3Deep is getting to the heart of the matter. You start off by following your bliss into art school. My first drawing class was Life Drawing, so I go into the studio and "Days of future past" is playing, there is a magnum of Chardonnay on ice, and for three hours I get to figure draw an amazingly beautiful African American model ( Norma ). A little aside, after you get used to the idea that your not dreaming and get down to trying as best you can to state a strong impression of what you see and feel, you start to notice subtle things like how much richer the skin tones are on Norma than the Caucasian model you were drawing last week. And pretty soon you are consumed by trying your very best to express these wonderful subtleties in a strong way.

Where trouble creeps into paradise is out in the workaday world where things are anything but subtle. You know you want to be a working artist, to spend all day every day improving your craft, and it's an easy step to think functional decorative pieces are more widely purchased than a purely aesthetic work. I've worked composition for a number of years in other peoples shops and always you get pushed (especially if your designs are moving shirts), for more and faster. Most of the business men I've worked for couldn't see better or new, even if the client could, for the boss it just didn't compute. So you tell your self that it would take an artist to find that line between gilding a Lilly, and providing enough production value to effectively move product. Eventually you end up with tools of your own and now it's on you to balance effort with compensation. So it's a no brain er to see that if you have a shirt that needs a muscle car illustration on it, that there are plenty of graphics available to accomplish your goals in a very affordable way.

Congratulations you've just become a clipartjockey. Next you start to notice that Rival Art, and istock among others have some really strong work, ( maybe 5% good and the rest is pretty weak) and you start to think of your self more as an art director. Someone with a strong enough aesthetic sense to separate the wheat from the chaff, and enough practical business sense to to translate those skill sets into revenue (or accounts receivable lol).

Finally (and for those of you who have stayed with this diatribe so far, I appreciate your forbearance) you come to a place like this, and you see such lovely work like Lemmorris' and you wonder how you ever walked, and sometimes ran this far down the road to perdition.

So personally I am at a cross roads. Looking back I'm not sure I could find my way back to that place, let alone compete in an arena with this kind of talent and skill. I guess I'm not really looking for answers, so much as using this thread to help focus the questions.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated,  and again I apologize for straying this far off topic. Apparently straying is what I do best. lol             

[Dottonedan]

If this is too off topic someone just say so and I will re post in a new thread. But can dedication to design be reconciled with practical business necessity?  It seems like I get to the point of resenting the amount of time it takes to execute to the best of my ability. Are design and compensation mutually exclusive goals? Or is it a matter of finding balance? Also could it be that designing well is a loss leader in order to get the print run? Again sorry for straying.

One of the most astute questions about art I've heard in a long time.  I'll have to post after cutting the grass. :)

[Phatgi]

As good as your work is I wouldn't trust anyone. Once again amazing job!! Keep up the great work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wesdeselms]

Sweet. Now we have a light source....... :-\

[Sbrem]

Very nice Mr. Roberts, well said. My natural calling is music, but I hate the business so much that I became a printer instead (plus I suck of course) ;D

Steve

[3Deep]

Well said Mr. Roberts from the other Mr. Roberts here LOL, hell I'm still going back to Norma, I'm like to see her ;)

darryl

[lemorris]

I feel better now.

Thanks

[Dottonedan]

I think the think that Lemorris lives by as he's indicated, is that he does what he does and does ok and he's happy with that.
Other artist do what thy do and struggle with themselves.


I've seen many different ways artist look at their art and pricing and the level of happiness. Lemorris's approach is aweomse...but might not be awesome for someone else so I think the thing to take away from this questions is just what Lemorris says.


Do what you do and be happy with it.if not, change it up to get you where you need t be to make yourself happy. Thats the goal I think.


Can there be a balance?  Yes, I say there can be. Lemorris and I and others here know another good artist Jeremy Duncan. He's probably one of the TOP tee shirt artist in the US or even world...cuz tee shirt artist comparisons can easily stretch world wide. I say that not because of his art, but the combination of great art, great seps and also, rarely seen with the other two combined is "great design skills". That cats got all three. I may do good art and seps, and I get by with design skills, but I can't call my self a true "designer". Jeremy can. I'm just more of an illustrator that can sep.  With my skills tho, people have called me one of the best, but the good always have someone else to look up to. Jermey has his own artist that he looks up to.


With everything I know about Jeremy, (on this subject, I've considered his approach to art) and compared to how I do the business of art...and I can go that same business direction but haven't. I needed at one point to evaluate what it is that I do for my pricing and business style (if you will). So I spoke to him a little and looked at other good artist and pondered.


Jeremy is one that has (stuck with) his way that makes him both happy and now lucrative or at least as lucrative as probably you can be in the tee art business. Jeremy for example, (I'm speaking of him looking on the outside in) We've talked a little about this subject but I'm only speaking from my own perspective. He might have something to add that might provide more detail or light but thats him.  Here's how I see it.


Jeremy has rarely done the basic type setting and clip art jobs (just to get a job in the door).  In his earlier days getting started, I'm sure he would much rather wait a week or three to get (the type) of job that made him money as well as made him happy). He's a very busy guy now, and probably can have 1-3 of these jobs a week and makes very good money. The clip art/type setting/jpg image conversion is a job in the door, ...but doesn't make him happy. After a while, he was able to build up a reputation of being (the go to guy) for that type of high end work and when you thought of him...thats all you thought of was the great high end work.


Now, I can do high end art and seps but (the creation and designing and approvals) is time consuming and for that reason, I charge accordingly but also do everything else in between that takes far less time...and now I'm known for that (high to low end) as well. These days, and even during the down turn of the economy, I was able to stay busy in fact I was even busier then when the economy was good.  So does Jeremy, but he's more known for it and thats all he does. When you order a job from him, you (as the customer) you paid good money and for that reason, you know it's going t be a good one). Form an artist standpoint, I like his approach more than my own.


For me, I still take in all areas of work...and for that reason, I get a lot of work, but rarely are any of them (the best) of my portfolio because of budgets. Many of my customers know when they have a tight budget, it's going to be good and print well, but will only be worth the money they paid. Typically, a little more than they paid but I tend to keep (what they paid) in check. Time is money right?  Thats contrary to what Lemorris has indicated he does...and he's happier for it. So over time, I end up having a much weaker portfolio than say Jeremy or even Lemorris but we're all busy. So who's right?  We all are, but they are happier.


I think the reason is, (I've charged accordingly). If it's a type setting job, lets say I charge 10.00 and if it's a 8 color design with 3 chicks and a fire truck, with seps included, I charge 6-800.00  I can often get my time so booked up with these little jobs that I've got no room to take the jobs I like. It's a catch 22 I guess. Over time, of turning the good jobs down, most everything you can be doing are the little jobs.  So I struggle with "happiness" but I pay bills and I'm always doing work. Thats a good thing...and yet as an artist, I know I'm capable of more. Artist like Jeremy and his business method seem to be where it's at if you want happiness all the time. Sure, he's still got his trouble jobs, just like any millionaire struggles with paying his bills. ;) They do ya now. (so I hear).


Now with me having (what artist may consider a weaker portfolio (in my personal opinion), the printer shops may see my portfolio as diverse and one that would be a good fit. One that I'm not as happy to show off "everything" to other artist all the time and proud of, but it's good for a print shop since they always need someone who can handle all.


I still can make (roughly) close to the same $ as Jeremy with roughly the same hours invested in a week...yet I've worked on 3 times more jobs...and don't love every one of them.  Feel me?  He works days and night, long hours and so do I. So do many or most of the artist out there. We know the wee hours of the morning very well but thats the lifestyle of the freelancer. How you handle your business...


I'm not truly happy doing everything so I'd like to change over to only taking on those big jobs...but the wait for those...is difficult...and at the same time...I'm now known for taking on those little jobs so they are always ALWAYS there knocking at my door. I then feel I have an obligation to take those jobs on...I don't want to let my customers down. If I want to be happy and change over, I have to no longer take those jobs on and I feel I turn my back on my customer. It's a "me" thing tho.


As Lemorris has indicated, It's all on you and what makes you happy. Do what you do and thats all.