Start a screen printing shop with minimal experience ? Or something else ?

[earthdome]

Let me be the first to tell you to run.. run fast and far away from this industry. It's the most cut-thoat kick em in the D I C K over a penny bunch of people I've ever met. I grew up in this industry and have seen it's best and absolute worst. It's what I know and do best so I'm here for life, you're new with high hopes and ambitions just waiting to be trampled on and drug through the bowels of screen printing. 

If you want to do this.. don't print! SELL!! and let us lifer ink monkey's who really know what were doing, do it for you.

**edit.. really guys.. word censoring..  what are we in grade school.

Is this one of my local competitors ? lol .... feel like I just got a swift one to the junk myself, hehe.

I do not however take for granite your perspective, that's why i'm here.  And it's refreshing getting opinions from actual screen printers which is what I was looking for ..

I know you likely see it as me jumping into a pool of infested waters that I am not aware of, but it's not my first time around the block with screen printing. I failed years ago also when trying to start up in a friends Sign shop.... but there was no advertizing and for the most part the signs dominated the work load. Also he shut down shop and moved on , so there was nothing I could do about it ..

I have intermediate knowledge of design software and have studied printing methods and researched for 10+ years . Though a lot of it was focused on web sales  and researching that market , I don't feel blind to screen printing.

Have a lot of resources , designer friends, web designers that would benefit not just my advertizing but the business itself in being able to offer a full compass promotional outfit .

Maybe your right , maybe I should not focus on the printing ... or find another way to get it done.  Wearing a suit and doing sales is not what I signed up for though . And what tells me this is the right business to do sales in ?  Shouldn't I be the one sending out a sales guy to bring more money in ? Or focusing on the sales aspects myself ?

As I said having a true industry response is what I was looking for and the reality checks are refreshing..   Just went from being in a Porsche to now a run down K car in the hood with a bunch of guns pointed at my head ... lol

I do think I need to take a step back, and I am trying to explore all alternatives I can.... If I could find the perfect little shop in my tourist town to run a candy shop or something and make a living , I would probably jump on it.

Or a something related to computers or computer repair has crossed my mind also but just don't see the market.

All of your input is valued .. thank you

[earthdome]

If I had the gift of gab I'd be selling and not printing.

Why are you so deadset on this business loan thing and figuring out how to utilize/justify it?
Wouldn't you rather start a business and not take on any debt?

Build a website. A good one. Pay someone to do it for you if you can't. Market the hell out
of yourself. Both of those take at least a little money so there's your loan justification if
you must. Shake hands and smile and network and wear a tie and junk. Make connections
and sell sell sell.

I would like to see what businesses have been successful by just doing sales. If I had a website or something to reference from I would definitely check it out.

I am dead set on this loan thing because for one it's not a loan!  I am getting assistance due to a disability and as far as I know it is just that "assistance"  Never did I make mention to a loan ..

 I chose to go the business instead of going to school and I think I made the right decision. Have thought about a business class so then I would know the proper market, etc.. but I thought I was intelligent enough to figure that out on my own.. There are other factors such as being a felon that factor in to my decision.

You are kind of right. perhaps I'm looking at the funding the wrong way ..... Just praying I make the right decision , one I can live with , and be happy with ..

Building a top notch website doesn't sound like a bad idea, however I have the resources to do that already ...

I am hoping if I dedicate a couple weeks to being in a print shop ... perhaps it will change my view on things....

If you guys didn't get into printing I would like to hear what you would have chose instead ? 

[Homer]

If I had the gift of gab I'd be selling and not printing.

uhh -I think you have the gift haha. . . I have to 100% agree with J Sheridan. Anyone with a few hundred bucks can get into this industry and suck the life out of it. . If you want in, then go work at a shop for a few years and learn as much as you can.  If you don't know a thing about production,  how can you sell a finished product?

I would take that business grant, go buy some Nikes and run like the freakin wind. . .better off opening a pizza shop, atleast you'll get to eat a damn lunch. . .hell, It's Friday night 11:00 and I'm STILL working. . . I'm talking to Captain Morgan in about five minutes.

[earthdome]

. . . I have to 100% agree with J Sheridan. Anyone with a few hundred bucks can get into this industry and suck the life out of it. . If you want in, then go work at a shop for a few years and learn as much as you can.  If you don't know a thing about production,  how can you sell a finished product?

I would take that business grant, go buy some Nikes and run like the freakin wind. . .better off opening a pizza shop, atleast you'll get to eat a damn lunch. . .hell, It's Friday night 11:00 and I'm STILL working. . . I'm talking to Captain Morgan in about five minutes.

Thanks for your opinion Homer. And a Pizza Shop isn't a half bad idea.....  Sure  "Anyone with a few hundred bucks can get into this industry and suck the life out of it" ...... but someone with the resources and funding to get something done, and has found a niche area and done a ton of research and found ways to set itself apart from the competition.. can (I think)  not just survive .. but thrive..

In fact I know it's possible because people have started on a shoestring and are still doing it today....and there is even proof in the "How did you......"   thread on this forum.... as well as other people ...

"If you don't know a thing about production,  how can you sell a finished product?"

Well , who says I don't know a thing ??  I actually know quite a bit about screen printing... and if I include a weekend seminar and hands on screen printing course (as is included in my business plan) ... and with the wealth of information that is available not just on this forum, but everywhere online ... how could I possibly fail ??

Plus they say that 80% of jobs are 1 or 2 color prints, do you really think I couldn't accomplish not even those prints ?? Not even with the help of this forum ?   Besides I have knowledgeable veterans in the industry helping me get started so think my bases should be pretty well covered.  And also I plan on focusing the majority of my efforts on sales and marketing and may include an employee in the business plan ..

I think whenever I mention my funding source , you folks really take a dis-liking to that or something ... not sure of it but it seems that way . Every one shut up since I said that... that may not be the case.... and I know this industry isn't easy... but I see it being VERY profitable given the different array of services I will offer. And given the countless months of market research that's into it,and the growing area I want to hit,  I don't see how it could fail....

But I understand what your saying , and I am not canceling out any options... I mean if NO ONE at all had confidence in this but me .. and every printer said run, run away !  I likely would. But I am going to try and stand my ground and know the capabilities of my business plan....

I'd be glad to hear any more thoughts or opinions ...

Thanks Homer for sharing your thought's ... Hope your meeting with the Captain was Spiiicy ; )

[blue moon]

As a guy that has extensive business background and started my shop from a similar perspective as you, I can tell you that you are very wrong when you think that it is a VERY lucrative business. It will depend on what you consider very profitable, but I can tell you that I have never worked so hard for so little money. Part of the low return is because most of the profits are going back into the company, but even when we reach the set goals and the business stabilizes, it will be making a fraction of what I was making before. There are several reasons why this makes sense to me and it would not work for other ppl (mainly I am looking to have somebody run it for me and collect passive income which makes my company an investment rather than a job and thus goes by a totally different set of rules). All of the top ppl in the industry are not doing very well (I have talked to several of the legends and they are all scraping by or doing just OK at the best. and these are the ppl that are considered the best of the best in our field). When members like John Sheridan (who has extensive background and years if not decades in managing anything from a small manual to 60+ employee shops) tell you it is a tough business, you are getting the information from the horse's mouth.

Nobody is trying to talk you out of it, we are just giving you honest feedback. I've helped many other printers with advice, letting them visit our shop and even going to their place to help them a little. Almost everybody here is trying to help other members rather than sabotage them. On few rare occasions some piece of information is not divulged and usually it is labeled as some sort of trade secret, but 99.9% of the information is shared freely for the purpose of helping each other out.

Many here are skeptical as there are screen printing shops popping up everywhere just to close a year or two later and disrupt the hard working folk while they are around.

The reality is, while you have looked at many things related to the numbers, the main factor in any small business operation is the human element. When venture capital companies invest in the startups, they invest in the team that will be running it. It takes a special breed to do what you are trying to do and to be successful. The hours are brutal, the pay is non existent for at least a year if not longer so most ppl give in and close. Working 80 hour weeks and not getting paid takes a vision and determination. Are you willing to work 12 hour days seven days a week and take home $500 a month for the next 12 months? Building a business is not easy, you might be much better off finding one that is closing and buying them out. If you are good with numbers, figure out what they are doing wrong and figure out if it can be fixed. This way you will start with the customers, equipment and procedures. It does not have to be a screenprinting company as you say that there aren't many in your neck of the woods,anything will do. Once the business is up and running, it is much easier to evaluate and project. Your best bet is to find somebody looking to retire, but the business is actually doing well. In most cases the children are not interested in taking it over and the owners are ready to get out. You might be able to work in it for a while and even buy it cheaper if you let the owners keep a part of it.

Back to startups . . .You are fooling yourself if you think that the marketing part is easy. Generating new customers is a difficult and slow process. Trying to generate sales in a new city where you have no roots is going to be extremely hard!
To further tear your business plan apart, $5k is nowhere near enough to get a shop going. We spent $6.5k to start, but we had $60k of work already lined up so no marketing money was needed (it was all for equipment that I then spent days repairing and rebuilding). If I had to guess, it would have taken close to $15K to find that business if we had to start from scratch.

After all the years of being a business guy, I can tell you that the best advice I can give you is "Find the sales first!" the other part is easy. Right now, you are concentrating on the wrong part of the business.

pierre

[earthdome]

I truly appreciate  your input Pierre... Can I ask what size community you live in ? Is you company being new a reason why you are still re-investing ? And what do you mean by "fraction of what I was making before"?? You mean In Your previous job or business?  You say you had 60k in business to start, how is that slow ?? I mean .. I know there are shops that are greatly successful so it is possible right ?

Is how you run your business now a factor in how you are having slow returns ? Or are you in production your self now but don't want to be ?

Sorry a couple things confused me there..

Of course hearing things like "I've never worked so hard for so little money"and "Get a pizza shop at least you will eat lunch" are discouraging to say the least... but it's the reality of things I guess and I know the business is not easy, or starting a business for that matter.

I know things like ( DTG shops and shirt costs) are also causing for more strain on the industry. And I could see how "ill experienced" people like me could be seen as a "cog in the wheel" And I know it's likely you veterans would likely have more respect and confidence in me had I "been through the trenches" like most of you...

But I feel with my resources of having a couple printers willing to show me the ropes, or wanting to help grow the business to a worthy enterprise could help. They both happen to live in my market and one has ran a shop successful shop with employees, the other still working in a print shop but has his own equipment including a conveyor , but not the resources to open a shop. And both feel it could be successful and are willing to help me grow if even just on a contracted basis.

Also I know a couple other printers (one out of his house) and one in a suburban location (the guy in the burbs is using an old little conveyor dryer I owned and sold about 10 years ago) (my first round of equipment) He got it through a friend and it is being used on a daily basis.. (If that isn't ironic)

Given these factors and the graphic designers,web designers, an accountant,  my sales experience, equipment I already own, (also perhaps contacts of these other printers)... My thoughts were if I could bring all these things under one umbrella I could be providing a great number of services into the community, while also helping people I know expand and utilize there skills. Which is kind of what my business name is catered towards. A full compass design/web development/promotional item store, not just limiting myself to screen printing. But do I know 100% the market is there and I can acquire the sales to justify it ? No. not 100%

I realize I was looking at the funding the wrong way. The DVR  is not looking to help me start a big corporation , but only to find something suitable for my conditions (So long as I could prove a feasible business plan). And not sure how they'd look at having to travel 40 miles to work every day then have to work 14 hour days to achieve my goal.  And I know starting from the ground up would have been the optimal way to go about starting up.. and making a name for myself.

It was for these newly introduced factors, than made me consider the larger area. Little competition, help directly in that are... perhaps resources with equipment.. But also I do have $8,000 in value in my own equipment so I dont see how you could say I couldn't start up on 5k of added equipment ? Of course rent, taxes, insurance, etc would also be factors....but that is in my plan.

Your right though, the more I look into possibilities of "turn key" businesses, or possibly a business that someone is getting out of for whatever reason. And building on that, or changing or growing it...this may be the best option.

I do see another alternative to the screen printing, if I were to use the equity in my equipment to get say a DTG (knowing that is a learning curve also) but perhaps I could either do a store front and offer heat transfers also ... or focus towards doing that at home with the advent of the internet, perhaps build a mega site offering 100's of designs etc ... hehe I don't know ... man have I sure been sending myself through a Whirlwind here...

Certainly glad I have opened my eyes a bit here and taking a step back. There are so many possibilities out there and they don't all take funding or "special funding potential" that I have, just perseverance, the right mind set and actually following through with things...   

Anyways, props to anyone who made it through reading all that, and thanks for hearing me out.

If any one has any other light they want to shed it would be greatly appreciated. I would certainly be floored if someone would want to take some time to actually talk to me, maybe  help work some of this out..

As for now i'm going to keep looking at what else may be out there, and taking a much more serious look at my whole idea on things ...

Thanks again

[blue moon]

again, you are looking at this from the wrong end. You have the right idea about figuring things out before getting into it, but you should be looking for sales first rather than the means to fulfill them. Once you find the customers it is relatively easy to figure out how to produce the goods (or services or what ever you are selling). As I said, we had $60k of committed work per year before we invested the time and money into the startup. So go find ppl that need something, anything, and get them to commit the work if you can deliver the goods. Find what is ailing them and fix it. Some ppl need faster turnaround, some need reduced art charges and some need better quality. Some need smaller runs and some need something impossible. Go find them and then spend the money on building the infrastructure to fulfill it.

pierre

p.s. fraction of what I was making before means I take home 1/10th of what I was making 10 years ago. This is in part due to reinvestment in the company (it will be three years old in few weeks), but it is also a less profitable business then what I have done before. While the gross margin is higher, it is very labor intensive and net profits are about half if not less than what the computer industry business was doing.