Why Discharge is No Longer My Go-to Ink on Darks

[sqslabs]

There have been some posts on the forum about shops using discharge as their "go-to" ink, even when customers have not requested it, and recommending to others that they should be doing the same.  I understand that, because there was a time when I did this as well. As I no longer fall into that category, I feel I should share my experience and reasoning on the subject. So this was written with those shops in mind, as well as those currently starting out with discharge and finding its benefits.  I hope my experience with these inks can be beneficial to those using, or considering using them.

This is one man's opinion, and only goes as far as my own experience. I'm not here to kick discharge ink in the balls, and feel that these inks have their place in every shop. I continue to use them either on request, or will suggest them to a client where I think the design would benefit from their use. In these cases, I provide the client with an breakdown of what to expect, and what not to expect with their final product, and make sure this information is understood before moving forward.

This theory excludes manual printing, in which the time and energy savings of discharge can begin to outweigh many of the cons. But as I believe most on this forum are automatic printers, I've chosen to keep the focus on that.

I've given a bit of background on myself in other threads, so I'll keep that part brief in this one.  But I feel some background is necessary to support the writing.

I've been using discharge and waterbased inks since 2008, and for the first year of my business used them exclusively. What started as an attempt to do things a bit more environmentally friendly, quickly turned into the shop that every fashion line in the area was calling to get a softer hand on their garments. By not using any plastisol inks during that time, it forced me to learn the ins and outs of discharge and WB inks, and although I received some great advice from some knowledgable people, I learned most things the hard way. I consider myself to be "seasoned" with these inks, and am very comfortable using them.  I've used Matsui inks pretty much exclusively, although I am beginning to branch out more these days as advances are made by other manufacturers.

So why did I stop using discharge as my go-to ink on darks?  For the most part, I found that while they seem to offer benefits and save time on a short-term basis, when looked at from a wider angle that argument begins to fall apart. There are many more variables that come into play when using discharge inks that are not found when using plastisol, and can begin to add up over time. I've ran into just about every issue that you can with discharge, and have weighed these instances into my current outlook.

So first, I'd like to lay out the pros and cons of discharge ink, in my experience.  This initial set is based on an average size run for my shop, around 72 pieces.  This assumes that the plastisol equivalent inks are the same price as the discharge inks, which with white is close enough.

Pros
Soft Hand (Customer Satisfaction)
Quicker print speed, mainly in cases of smaller presses (Time gain)
Easier Cleanup (Time and/or $ Gain)

Cons
Must be weighed/mixed before use (Time loss)
Leftover ink is unusable ($ Loss)
Dyes in shirts may not be compatible (Time and/or $ Loss)
Screen Breakdowns (Time and/or $ Loss)
Double Stroke Reccomended (Time Loss)
Color fading, especially on ringspun cotton (Customer Dissatisfaction)
Pinholes, ink smudges much harder to clean (Time and/or $ Loss)
Colors not as vibrant (Customer Dissatisfaction)
Inks/Activator lose potency over time (Time and/or $ Loss)
Color matching is iffy at best (Time and/or $ Loss)

This list takes into account an average sized run at my shop, and one could make an argument for additional lists as things can begin to shift a bit when dealing with larger runs. In any case, we'll stick with one list for now, for brevity's sake.

Once we take into consideration a customer who did not request, and does not understand the nature of discharge inks, the list tips even further to one side as we begin to lose the soft hand as a benefit. In my experience speaking with customers, the vast majority are looking for a print that is going to continue to look great over time, and how it feels is going to be secondary. This can especially come into play when there is even minimal pilling on ringspun garments which can push through the print, giving it a "faded" look when in fact nothing has actually faded. 

So why do I continue to use discharge and waterbased inks at all anymore?  Well, I do feel that they have their place, although that place is in the premium category of print techniques. Its a niche market, but a tool that I believe should be in every printer's bag, as with any premium product, it can be priced accordingly and made profitable. This type of printing helped build my business from a one-man manual operation to what will be a two automatic shop this October, proving its worth to me.  But as the business as grown, and numbers increased, I began to see a pattern.

Looking at things from a broader viewpoint based on lost time, lost garments and lost accounts, forced me to realize that overall I was losing money when using discharge inks as an alternative to plastisol. So this year, as an experiment, I added a $1.00 surcharge *per print* when using discharge or waterbased inks on small to mid-sized runs. In doing so, I've found that those customers who put the "quality" of a print above all else are happy to pay the surcharge, and when price is the main objective the customer chooses plastisol. For past accounts doing reprints, I've split the difference at $0.50 per print, and offered those customers an explanation as to why the price has increased on this type of printing. They've all understood, and have continued to use the inks.

By adding the surcharge to these type of prints, it seems to have so far outweighed the negatives and kept these prints profitable when looked at on a larger scale, over time.  If and when I begin to lose jobs based on this charge, which hasn't happened yet, I will look at the numbers and consider scaling it back. I'm of course willing to work with clients on larger run pricing, as once again with larger runs we begin to see a significant shift in the pros/cons list.

With an automatic press and a couple decent flashes, plastisol can definitely be as quick (and at times even faster based on print strokes) as discharge ink, without the risks involved that come along with all discharge runs. This allows me to offer more competitive pricing using plastisol, which I believe is necessary for any "go-to" ink selection. With proper mesh, squeegee and ink selection, bulletproof prints become a thing of the past, and profits, as well as customer satisfaction (and as a byproduct word-of-mouth) increases. I'm currently working on improvements on this side of things in my shop, so that I can offer a much higher quality plastisol print than is found elsewhere, giving me an edge over the competition on standard prints as well.

There will always be a place for discharge inks in my shop, and I will continue to use and experiment with them. When they work well, they are simply outstanding and can take any shop to another level of service. But when they don't, it hurts bad and can quickly grind a screen printing operation to a halt. Downtime and garment loss are the worst-case scenario of any shop, and discharge simply has a higher percentage of creating those instances than plastisol. Which is why plastisol is my current go-to ink on darks, and where I am focusing much of my energy toward improving.  If and when advances in discharge ink begin to outweigh the above scenarios, I would definitely begin to rethink my stance.

I welcome all comments, disagreements, and suggested revisions, as I'm still figuring all this out and am continually looking for ways to improve myself and my shop. There are plenty of operations out there making lots of money with discharge inks, and if they are charging the same as plastisol and seeing similar profits, I'd love to know how.

Thanks for reading.

[Inkworks]

What a great post! That's why I come here!

Even if people don't agree, this post should give much food for thought, and fuel some great debate from which we can all benefit in one way or another.

We're DC/WB newbies at my shop, I still pull it out for some jobs, and we continue to get better at it, but I think you're right, One size does not fit all and it's best to keep everything in perspective.

I look forward to hearing the other side of the debate and how some are dealing with a few of the Cons you list.

[screenxpress]

Same for me.

I'm only part-time and have dabbled a little with discharge and definitely appreciate all the details described.

Thanks for taking the time to post that. 

[Printficient]

Great post!!!!!  Finally a rational person who has thought the ENTIRE process through for his shop.  I wish this approach was used for all the other parameters of screen printing.  A 10 second exposure time ONLY benefits a shop with a 10 second or less wash out time.  A cooler less power usage exposure unit benefits all shops and should be the reason for the purchase.  An EOM ONLY benefits a shop that has dialed in and understands the amount of ink that is needed to lay ON the shirt and not IN the shirt per mesh count and thread diameter. 
I am in no way saying not to learn more about our industry so as to improve your shop.  I am saying understand MORE than the "sales" pitch for whatever you are buying.  Think it through for your application.  To hear some talk a great print cannot evolve unless you have this piece of equipment or that mesh or that frame or that ink.  Truth is, some absolutely amazing prints were done in the day with warped no tension wood frames on precision ovals or God forbid in someone's kitchen with a hinge and table.  The point is that those who printed in the day had to KNOW the process in and out.  Today that is not always the case.  The technology available to you today allows for a "procedural" knowledge base to be fine without a "process" base to work from. The inks and mesh and equipment are far improved greatly from that which I used when I was taught this wonderful process nigh on to 30 years ago.

[sqslabs]

Thanks guys.  I'm glad to hear the post was helpful.

I look forward to hearing the other side of the debate and how some are dealing with a few of the Cons you list.

I do too.  But in the meantime I'd be happy to explain how I've dealt with some of the issues listed.

Must be weighed/mixed before use (Time loss)
With colors we use often, like white or red, we premix colors and just add the agent when its time to print.  But you can't do this for every color, and there will always be some mixing time involved.

Leftover ink is unusable ($ Loss)
From time to time, on something we know we'll reprint, we'll weigh the ink before and after the run, and take notes for next time so we can mix closer to the amount needed.  This works best when printing manually, as less ink is needed overall to keep printing.  We mostly ballpark it though based on experience. On an automatic, there will always be waste ink left over regardless.  With most colors, running out of ink during a print is a shirt killer, so its always better to have a bit extra mixed regardless.

Dyes in shirts may not be compatible (Time and/or $ Loss)
Having your go-to shirts that have worked well in the past is something very important to take note of when you begin printing with discharge.  For the most part, a black Next Level 3600 or American Apparel 2001 is going to discharge almost every time.  But even with these, you can run into overdyes which can throw things completely into left field.  There are also certain shirt colors to be wary of in general, like Royal Blue and certain shades of Green.  I recently established "The Discharge Project", which has the potential to be a communal bank of information related to these issues, if others decide to participate.  You can check that out and participate here:  http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,12269.0.html

Screen Breakdowns (Time and/or $ Loss)
Using the right emulsion is the first step in solving these issues.  We use Murakami Aquasol HV, which is post exposed and hardened using a reclaimable hardener.  We also tape the squeegee side of the screen off up to the design, and make sure all corners are well sealed to prevent the thinner ink leaking through.  This all adds up to time though, and I'd ballpark that it takes us twice as long to get a discharge job set up.  We may be a bit over the top in our precautions, but it has worked well for us and the time is covered in the extra cost to the customer.

Double Stroke Recommended (Time Loss)
I don't know if others are printing discharge single stroke, but I wouldn't personally recommend it.  I think a double stroke is important for proper penetration, as well as keeping the screen open with certain inks that tend to dry quicker.  In my earlier days using discharge, I had single stroke prints come out of the dryer looking great, but after a wash looked terrible.  I lost a potential large customer due to that screw up, and haven't done a single stroke since.

Color fading, especially on ringspun cotton (Customer Dissatisfaction)
There are additives or "fixers" which supposedly set the ink color better into the shirt (why wouldn't they just add this into the ink in the first place?), but for the most part the color seen at the end of the dryer will mute a bit after a wash.  This is due to the top layer of pigmented ink washing off the shirt in the first wash.  White, and variations of white don't seem to have this issue as much as brighter colors.  The knit of the shirt can also play a role in this, and ringspun cotton shirts tend to look more faded after a wash when using discharge or waterbased inks, due to pilling of the fabric.

Pinholes, ink smudges much harder to clean (Time and/or $ Loss)
There's not much you can do in these situations, as discharge is coloring the actual fabric of the shirt, so you can't shoot it out with a spot gun.  We still spot gun the shirt to get the top layer of ink off, and then recolor the shirt using something else.  On black shirts, a sharpie will usually do the trick.  On colored shirts we try to find a waterbased ink color closest to the shirt, but its not foolproof and takes a lot more time then hitting a plastisol smudge with the goof gun.  In many instances, the garment will be lost.

Colors not as vibrant (Customer Dissatisfaction)
This seems to be getting better with more discharge manufacturers making strides in vibrant colors, like the D-Flo inks which I had the opportunity to test recently.  But I've yet to see a discharge color that was as bright as its properly based plastisol counterpart following a wash.

Inks/Activator lose potency over time (Time and/or $ Loss)
Labeling the date on inks and agent can definitely help with this, especially if you aren't going through them quickly.  It is always advised to run one shirt through the dryer before starting a run though, and in those cases you should be able to tell if something is off.  If there is, you're gonna lose some time correcting the problem.

Color matching is iffy at best (Time and/or $ Loss)
I really hope someone gets close with this someday, but with all the variables involved, I don't have my hopes up.  Keeping a catalog of your own color mixes is a good idea, and reusing colors when you can will definitely save time.  When trying to match a color, I'll usually start with my ink's color matching system and tweak it from there, in batches of 100g.  This is very time consuming but necessary in an ink matching scenario.  If The Discharge Project takes off, I'd consider doing something similar with ink color mixes.

All the best.

Brett

[TCT]

Awesome post as usual. I am going out on a limb and going to guess that with the extent of your posts that attention to detail in your shop is not something that gets overlooked!

We use discharge a lot(even though it seems we had some major issues on a few jobs as of late) the reason is probably because our biggest customers and in turn the larger percentage of jobs on the press require DC/WB. Plus a DC UB is hard to beat. There was a BIG learning curve we were thrown into and NEEDED to learn.

One thing we definitely have not mastered and I still wish we were better with was knowing how much ink to mix up. With companies like Virus and Simplex having long shelf life activated DC inks will make things easier, but I think that is more if a band aid for not knowing amounts to mix.

A few things we learned along the way having to do with some of the things you brought up are(please forgive me for being NOWHERE near as organized as you)-

Getting colors right... We started out with Matsui inks in the beginning, after gathering a 3 ring binder with formula tweaks and frustration with Matsui whites we switched. We started using CCI. Their mixing software seems to be much more accurate. Their pigments are less concentrated than the Matsui pigments. A negative at times but a bonus at times. Mixing smaller batches of Matsui ink, 1 extra drop could throw the colors of pretty extreme. Easier with CCI. Now for a nice rich red with CCI seems like you need to put damn near a full bottle of pigment in. Overall we got better and closer matches with CCI.

Wasting ink, this sucks and I bet everyone agrees. We have been eyeing the new Rutland WB-99 system. It has a recycling feature.... It would be really nice if other companies were able it integrate that option into their software!

Screen breakdowns. This used to drive me CRAZY!!!!!!!! We used to use the Murakami HVP, post expose, harden and sacrifice a virgin... Still would have issues. We switched to the Murakami SP1400 and doubled what our exposure time that we calculated for the 1400. Since then, screens are frickin' awesome! NO post expose, NO hardner. We will still use some tape on the edges. But it is night and day change. Also CCI has Aquablock that works real well on pin dots and pre press!

I have to run right now, but will list more when I get back.

[ebscreen]

Good info and perspective.

I was thinking about this the other day as we were running a 600 piece two side white on black
job that we run probably twice or more a month.

We run it discharge out of habit, but I got to thinking about it and realized how much
money we'd be losing if we ran it plastisol.

First, we would need two screens per side. Discharge is one screen per side. Add in the setup
just go.

Second, the image is fairly detailed, but also has some wide open areas. That would mean
230 base, and a double stroke on it. With discharge we run a 280 and single stroke it.
Production time on a double stroke plastisol 230 base is 450-550 tops if we can get the ink flowing
and the image isn't too large. We run this job at 700 pieces/hr plus.

Plastisol would need a flash, also $$.


While you do have some valid points, IE waste ink etc (white isn't a good example because we use
a ton of it and probably mix a half gallon or so throughout the day, refrigerate over night and add fresh
the next day) a lot of the issues you point out lean to the side of experience or not.

Personally, I think design dictates ink type more than anything. Construction worker left chest small type = plastisol always.

[sqslabs]

Good info and perspective.

I was thinking about this the other day as we were running a 600 piece two side white on black
job that we run probably twice or more a month.

We run it discharge out of habit, but I got to thinking about it and realized how much
money we'd be losing if we ran it plastisol.

First, we would need two screens per side. Discharge is one screen per side. Add in the setup
just go.

Second, the image is fairly detailed, but also has some wide open areas. That would mean
230 base, and a double stroke on it. With discharge we run a 280 and single stroke it.
Production time on a double stroke plastisol 230 base is 450-550 tops if we can get the ink flowing
and the image isn't too large. We run this job at 700 pieces/hr plus.

Plastisol would need a flash, also $$.


While you do have some valid points, IE waste ink etc (white isn't a good example because we use
a ton of it and probably mix a half gallon or so throughout the day, refrigerate over night and add fresh
the next day) a lot of the issues you point out lean to the side of experience or not.

Personally, I think design dictates ink type more than anything. Construction worker left chest small type = plastisol always.

I'd agree that the examples outlined become less frequent as one becomes more experienced with discharge, but that doesn't mean they never happen. It sounds like you have things pretty dialed in at your shop which would reduce those instances drastically, and I've seen the same in mine.  Is it your go-to ink in all these cases, even when not requested by a customer?

I think white on black is a good example of an optimal time to use discharge, and I used it in my shop for a long time in that scenario as my go-to. It doesn't require much mixing, and you know what to expect out of the bucket. But regardless of experience level and the shirts that *always* discharge, you'll eventually run into a patch of tees that discharges slightly (or completely) different than the rest, and a loss of money and time in those cases is almost inevitable.  Unless you have a customer who understands the nuances of discharge ink, and is okay with variations in print color. 

In regards to plastisol, I've been running 225S mesh recently and haven't required a double stroke at all, so by changing to a mesh with more open area it can help to speed things back up.  In my shop, we always double stroke discharge so its actually the opposite for us. I'm surprised you are running discharge single stroke through such a high mesh and are never running into any ink drying issues when stopping the press momentarily.  Please feel free to share your secrets.   

The two screens do require more pre-press time, so discharge definitely wins in that category if you aren't doing any additional taping/hardening to a discharge screen that you wouldn't do with a plastisol one.  But with a registration system the on-press setup can be pretty quick, and offset the time for those who mix discharge on a per-job basis.  The Virus inks may change that though, and having pre-activated discharge on hand would definitely speed up getting a job running.  But I have a feeling it will not only lead to more waste, but has the potential to create more issues on press as it loses potency.  We all know that our ink is going to work if we've just mixed it, but what if it was mixed four months ago?  Will it look exactly like the shirts we printed when we mixed it?  I'm definitely looking forward to getting my hands on some samples.

Fair game on the flash, but I'd be interested to see just how much more $ that would add to the job, and if it would outweigh the negatives outlined above over time.  I'd definitely agree that design should play a part in ink selection, and I usually discuss options based on this with my customers.  But if they want discharge, they're gonna pay a bit more for it.

Would anyone else be interested in taking some notes on their print runs and seeing if we can get to the bottom of this? If anything, we could probably learn a thing or two about how to improve the areas we are running less efficiently. 

[sqslabs]

We used to use the Murakami HVP, post expose, harden and sacrifice a virgin...

Haha totally missed this the first time I read it...  We're constantly praying to the screen printing gods when running multicolor discharge, and even have certain albums that we play which seem to please them.

Looking forward to the continuation of your post..

[TCT]

Ha! Continue if my post? Dude I am probably going to hide under a rock for 6-8 months when it comes to discharge discussion as I have clearly demonstratedI don't have my $hit together!

I can say the 3 biggest positive changes we made that make DC/WB jobs much more relaxed and reduce problems are-
1) Switched to Murakami SP-1400 *AND* expose it properly. Proper exposure(maybe even a tad overexposed) was probably the most important. But with the HVP we used to expose, rinse out, wipe off, apply MS hardner, let dry in from of a HUGE dehumidifier, post expose and cross or fingers. SP-1400 we expose and done. We have even in a rip screen during production situation exposed the screen and had it up printing in less than 10min from rinse out!

2) S-mesh. Probably don't need to go into detail here. While super high tension doesn't seem to be as critical with DC/WB open area is a huge help. There is a pretty well known shop that pretty much prints exclusively DC/WB inks and their go-to mesh for UB is a 310S and for top WB colors they use a 420S or what ever the close number there is(I sure don't have any that high).

3) That CCI Aquablock stuff! Seems like a minimal thing, but the time it saves and the convenience of it is awesome! We had used nail polish and emulsion before, but the emulsion took WAAAAY longer and while it was nice to have the block out match my nails:P it was only so-so.


We also have been running a lot of jobs with a DC UB and WB or HSA inks as top colors. Printing "plastisol style" with flashes and cool stations. The HSA route is not what I would call a fun route and also not something we do often at all. But the WB top colors is not too bad, it is a real nice look on hoodies.

We are actually going to run or first "sizeable" run on Friday with WB dye migration blocker. We have done some tests with it, I only wish there was a WB migration blocker that was not gray.....


Like I had said earlier something we need to really work on is doing a better job of judging how much ink needs to be mixed. This is not as big of a deal with WB inks as we just cap it and label it. When I really think about, I bet we are just as bad at judging plastisol inks, it is just we don't realize it. If the ink is out, just head over to the shelf and grab more. There is not as big of a "rushed" feeling because while yes you want the ours to keep spinning, you really don't have the ink drying thought in the back of your head.

Now to find my rock.....

[tonypep]

We have long since overcome all of the issues addressed above.

[sqslabs]

Thanks for chiming in Alex! I think all those tips will be very helpful to those using discharge inks, myself included.  And a couple bad runs definitely doesn't imply that you don't have your $hit together.  It's exactly what this topic is about.

We have long since overcome all of the issues addressed above.

That's awesome.  So discharge is your go-to on darks?  While my shop has definitely overcome many of the issues outlined, if you could share your input on them one by one it would be very helpful to the thread.  As mentioned previously, I am not here to tell people not to use discharge ink.  I use it all the time.  Just trying to figure out how others use it interchangeably with plastisol and still retain (or exceed) profitability over time.  From what I've gathered, you're one of the more advanced practitioners with discharge on the forum so your tips could potentially save many here a lot of time, money and headaches.

[Homer]

We have long since overcome all of the issues addressed above.

how do you deal with a batch of shirts that won't discharge? not as far as ordering more, but rescheduling your day, or that job, do you break down the press or leave it up? this is one thing we cringe on when a large run comes through....


for us it seems that having both systems, and knowing when to use dc vs plastisol is the key. we run both almost daily, some jobs just scream DC, and then some things just need plasicrap. as far as a "go to" system, I always ask myself if this job can be run dc before I start the seps, then we gear it one way or the other...we just like to work with wb inks more....except for the damn pin holes and finger prints....

we have exposure down, we have a system for coating / labeling screens per application, we use Aquablock, no post exposure or hardener unless we feel it's needed as a safety measure.... I really do like Sericol inks, open the bucket and go if it's wb, if it's dc add some agent and ready to roll...same shade every time, no messing around with pigs and dyes, we tried all that....not for us. one less variable to have screw with us.

[IntegrityShirts]

I really do like Sericol inks, open the bucket and go if it's wb, if it's dc add some agent and ready to roll...same shade every time, no messing around with pigs and dyes, we tried all that....not for us. one less variable to have screw with us.

Yeah I agree.  Their RFU wb and discharge inks are easy and predictable.

I just ran a bunch of next level 60/40 blends in turquoise and cardinal. DC underbase, a little plastisol for some small detail, then Matsui stretch white last. The matsui whites are frickin amazing in terms of brightness and durability. They just don't see to fade and hold up well for years. Only issue I have with it is drying in the screen, but that's for another thread.

[tonypep]

We have long since overcome all of the issues addressed above.

how do you deal with a batch of shirts that won't discharge? not as far as ordering more, but rescheduling your day, or that job, do you break down the press or leave it up? this is one thing we cringe on when a large run comes through....


for us it seems that having both systems, and knowing when to use dc vs plastisol is the key. we run both almost daily, some jobs just scream DC, and then some things just need plasicrap. as far as a "go to" system, I always ask myself if this job can be run dc before I start the seps, then we gear it one way or the other...we just like to work with wb inks more....except for the damn pin holes and finger prints....

we have exposure down, we have a system for coating / labeling screens per application, we use Aquablock, no post exposure or hardener unless we feel it's needed as a safety measure.... I really do like Sericol inks, open the bucket and go if it's wb, if it's dc add some agent and ready to roll...same shade every time, no messing around with pigs and dyes, we tried all that....not for us. one less variable to have screw with us.

We have graded charts for all brands and colors. No surprizes