Why Discharge is No Longer My Go-to Ink on Darks

[sqslabs]

We have graded charts for all brands and colors. No surprizes

You've never received an overdyed shirt or had slight variations in print color when using an A+ graded blank? 

While I have faith in a few brands and styles, I haven't found it to be foolproof regardless of history with those shirts.  While things have gotten better over time due to the demand for dischargeable blanks, in my experience there will always be surprises.  At which frequency those pop up will be where the rubber meets the road when it comes to profitability compared to plastisol.

[tonypep]

Not in years. We always steer people in brands we are confident. Our clothing lines are controlled, never an issue. As for profitability? DC is waaay less expensive for us, superior graphics, truer hues much easier. Plus we can do a few tricks with DC that can't be done with pls.  Printers here don't like plastisol at all. Much more but it's nothing that hasn't been written before.
Most things can be controlled but its not for everybody

[ebscreen]

A lot of people seem to have issues with screens breaking down with discharge and while we certainly
did at first I can honestly say we haven't had a single issue in years. Used to use Aquasol HV and now SP-1400
and both perform great. We post harden for longish runs but that magic number is climbing higher and higher lately.
I would hazard a guess that hard squeegees and steep angles with lots of pressure (ala plastisol) are probably
behind some of this.

OP, where are you located? California is good for post exposure in the sun but our humidity or lack thereof
can cause dry in problems at worst and constantly having to hydrate ink at best. Guess how many brands
of spray bottles we've been through? Some days we try and schedule all WB for early in the day. Them
Southerners probably have it best in terms of that issue.

[ZooCity]

This is a great post, good read and mirrors what I think a lot of shop owners/managers must have running through their heads on this. 

I agree with a lot of what you posted.  We do spec WB/DC at every opportunity as I think it's the best ink, best print you can make for many projects but we don't have a go to print method, it's all on the client's needs/wants/desires/demands and our best laid plans to meet them.   We also have more than just plastisol and water based in our quiver now with the amount of HSA we have been running.  I couldn't give a full endorsement or condemnation to any one of them, pros and cons all around but our go to full opacity white on most darks is HSA now for many jobs.  Multi color is an absolute toss up between all DC/WB, HSA, HSA/WB, all plasti and DC UB/plasti.  Way too many types of fabric going in and out of here to have a single type of ink to use.  I like to look at our prints and think "that's as good as that can get with the technology we have" and that requires serious versatility in print methods.   

PVC and the associated phthalates and plasticizers are the only thing I honestly have against plastisol.  Printed correctly, with quality inks and optimal curing, you'll deliver a very fine product in 80% of situations with plastisol.   It was engineered to print well and it really does, you just need to know what to do with it.   It's incredibly versatile- our plastisol system can print on nearly any fabric with not too many bases to keep in stock.  It has real advantages in many ways.

By far, my issue with DC ink is dye inconsistency of the fabric.  There is no brand available that has consistent dye lots, sorted as such.  Everyone has to deal with this. I presume Tony must be talking about larger cut/sew orders here and I agree that we don't even think about anything but discharge on those orders in our shop.  We have one client that drops an avg 4k pcs. of product at a time that is dyed/cut/sewn for them in a single lot and it's a beautiful thing, never one issue there.  But anything else will eventually give you an issue, it might be 1 T in 100 or 80% of your run, you just can't get a guarantee there although Next Level is really trying hard to provide this assurance and I think have made great steps toward doing so.  Anyways, I can see how this issue would be a deal breaker for some or perhaps many.  We roll the dice with it a lot and you certainly win some and lose some.  It feels like we ultimately come out ahead gambling with DC ink but I couldn't show you figures that demonstrate that as fact. 

[tonypep]

Obviously any print method, equipment, chemistry, etc, must fit each individual business model. Please don't think I am poo-pooing anyone who does not embrace waterbase technology. We simply seized on it years ago (even when it was much harder) and found ways to overcome each obstical. I cannot expand much on how; but we did. We did it for reasons I have mentioned endlessly. We are approximately 85% WB and growing. If nothing else it is the number one factor in increased sales and opportunities. Again, not for everyone.

[sqslabs]

OP, where are you located? California is good for post exposure in the sun but our humidity or lack thereof
can cause dry in problems at worst and constantly having to hydrate ink at best. Guess how many brands
of spray bottles we've been through? Some days we try and schedule all WB for early in the day. Them
Southerners probably have it best in terms of that issue.

I'm in Fort Lauderdale, FL, so we definitely don't have a lack of humidity here.  Let me have your address and I'll send you a 5g.   

PVC and the associated phthalates and plasticizers are the only thing I honestly have against plastisol.  Printed correctly, with quality inks and optimal curing, you'll deliver a very fine product in 80% of situations with plastisol.   It was engineered to print well and it really does, you just need to know what to do with it.   It's incredibly versatile- our plastisol system can print on nearly any fabric with not too many bases to keep in stock.  It has real advantages in many ways.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  This is an excellent point, and an ironic one for me as when I opened my business I was very vocal in being against plastisol for these very reasons.  I still believe that PVC will be outlawed someday due to its negative effects on the environment, unless someone comes up with a way to recycle or at least deal with the growing problem, but for now I try to be as conscious as I can in handling and disposing of the inks. 

I once had a lizard jump into a pail of white plastisol, and although I managed to get him out, I couldn't get him cleaned off and knew his days were numbered.  It reminded me off seeing birds covered in oil on the news.  So I try my best to be as responsible as I can with these inks, and consider it every shop's responsibility to do the same.  Maybe HSA inks will be the answer as they improve. I haven't had a chance to try them out yet but from what I've heard they don't perform on the same level.

I had actually considered adding this information in my original post, but didn't want to get too political in talking about it.  I am a tree hugger at heart though, so I'm glad you brought it up.

Obviously any print method, equipment, chemistry, etc, must fit each individual business model. Please don't think I am poo-pooing anyone who does not embrace waterbase technology. We simply seized on it years ago (even when it was much harder) and found ways to overcome each obstical. I cannot expand much on how; but we did. We did it for reasons I have mentioned endlessly. We are approximately 85% WB and growing. If nothing else it is the number one factor in increased sales and opportunities. Again, not for everyone.

As someone who ran 100% WB for over a year, I can also say that if you can carve out that niche and do it well, people will line up for it.  But as more people tap into the game and figure out the nuances, it will become harder to be the one trick shop for most.  You're obviously one step ahead which has worked out great for your shop.  But I'm guessing that customers are coming there for those inks, and you aren't substituting them for plastisol.  Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.  In any case, thanks much for sharing what you can on the subject.

I was thinking a bit more about it yesterday, and discharge ink is a lot like Texas Hold Em in that it takes a moment to learn, and a lifetime to master.  I believe anyone can lay down a great looking white discharge print within an hour of touching it for the first time.  I don't believe the same for plastisol.  Discharge is more forgiving on darks when it comes to print technique, as it isn't hard to set up a screen and drive ink into a shirt.  But over time, those who have mastered it will be more profitable due to the reasons outlined in the original post affecting those who haven't.  I still don't believe it is the workhorse ink that plastisol has proven itself to be (especially when combined with advanced tools and knowledge), and personally have yet to find a way around a few of the issues outlined in this post, but as the inks and technology continue to improve due to demand, it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[mimosatexas]

I love waterbased and discharge inks and I 100% believe the final print is superior to plastisol in specific scenarios like on a good dischargeable 100% cotton ring spun T or when trying for a vintage look on a blend.  As a manual printer I absolutely LOVE using waterbased inks because they are simply easier and faster to print as well in those scenarios.  That said, plastisol is just incredibly more versatile and easy to print in so many situations, and is really the only option in a good number of them.  I know there are increasingly more additives and special application waterbased inks, but being able to use a single ink out of the can without a second thought for 90% of your jobs really makes plastisol king.  I've printed on everything from putting green material to sandals to every blend of T without issue using plastisol, which just isnt possible with waterbased.

I feel like I have gotten over a lot of the learning curve and troubleshooting issues with waterbased and discharge inks, but I just don't get how you could go 100% waterbased.  I know of a handful of shops who at least advertise themselves as 100% waterbased, usually paired with a bunch of "look how green we are verbage", which always stuck me as odd with the amount of electricity, gas, chemicals, and water used it the process that definitely make our business far from green, not to mention the formaldehyde in almost every kind of discharge isnt exactly green.  I hate the environmental issues as much as the next guy, but I don't see how you could be 100% waterbased without simply turning down a lot of jobs or outsourcing to a shop that does use other inks... 

[sqslabs]

I know of a handful of shops who at least advertise themselves as 100% waterbased, usually paired with a bunch of "look how green we are verbage", which always stuck me as odd with the amount of electricity, gas, chemicals, and water used it the process that definitely make our business far from green, not to mention the formaldehyde in almost every kind of discharge isnt exactly green.

Yep, that was my shop when I opened it. Eco-friendly screen printing. The intention was definitely in the right place, but I quickly found out exactly what you're talking about here.  The truth is, there's not much that is really eco-friendly besides planting a tree.  Are there "better" ways?  Sure.  But I think that having some level of awareness in regards to the ecological responsibility of running a shop in place can help make things more sustainable than just switching inks altogether.  Maybe I've lost the plot, but that's where my focus is turned more toward these days.

Anyways, I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about sustainability so I'll cut myself off there. I struggle enough with the ethics vs business conundrum, and am still searching for a balance. But in any case, I agree with your entire post, and its very similar to my experience with these inks as well.

[ZooCity]

With these rumblings of a PVC ban, I really do wonder how you could shift to 100% waterbased at this point in the industry's development of the inks.  We have much to learn with HSA but I don't see it being a replacement right now.