High End Print Work 7/2

[DCSP John]

Hi Guys..

Figured I would put this out there and gauge your opinions..
We do a good amount of print work for museums here in DC. Mostly simple
stuff, stocking the in house museum stores with merchandise. Its a great gig, most of the time.

I was approached by The Phillips Collection, which is a rather well known museum.
All the old world artists, etc..

Take a look at the attached pics. They are old world masters with a new world Banskyesque play.
A well know street artist here has been contracted by the museum to 're-work' the masterpieces.

They want to stock their in house merch shop with tees and totes.

I can't even wrap my head around how to approach these prints, and am trying to figure out an exit strategy.
But, I need to have an idea of how to communicate my concerns with this type of  printing and expectations.
Or, at least figure how to properly explain our print limitations while still being as professional as possible.

Who out there in TSB land does this type if high end printing? Would you run from this type of work?
I mean, sim process is one thing, but trying to accurately reproduce the old world master on a dark tee?

Throw me couple of bones. Our biggest press is only a 10 color. 2 Flash.

I feel sorry for whoever would have to sep this stuff.

John

[blue moon]

we print stuff like that every week. The customer is waaay beyond picky and the tolerances are ridiculous. You are looking at $200-$300 for the seps and $75'hour for sampling. Some of the prints we do took 20+ hours to get to acceptable level. Once done, though we print them several times per year so the upfront investment is not a big deal. For a one time 144 piece order, go digital! Find somebody with a high end DTG and be done with it.

here's an example:

pierre

P.S. oh, and we do it on an 8 color press!

[mk162]

short run stuff like that is great for digital, we just did a print for inkman this last week that looked really great.

the downside of digital is speed and cost of inks....that being said it would be cheaper than 20 hours of sampling and $2-300 for seps if you ween't looking at really large runs.

[Homer]

that's a tough one John, send it to Dan or Scott @ MySeps to take a look at. it all starts with the seps as far as I'm concerned.

or Brad..

P - here's what I don't understand. You say this customer is beyond picky, and they pay for it - great, fine and dandy. but WHY are they so picky? who in the hell is ever going to notice one highlight missing or a shade off in color? the shlub wearing the shirt downing a 6 pack?  no -freakin- way is he going to say I won't wear that shirt, it doesn't match my 6 pack case....or are they the picky type because of the power struggle/ who's in control type of thing...that's what we usually find  - and no, we no longer have any picky customers 


reminds me I need to pick up a 6 pack on the way home today

[blue moon]

that's a tough one John, send it to Dan or Scott @ MySeps to take a look at. it all starts with the seps as far as I'm concerned.

or Brad..

P - here's what I don't understand. You say this customer is beyond picky, and they pay for it - great, fine and dandy. but WHY are they so picky? who in the hell is ever going to notice one highlight missing or a shade off in color? the shlub wearing the shirt downing a 6 pack?  no -freakin- way is he going to say I won't wear that shirt, it doesn't match my 6 pack case....or are they the picky type because of the power struggle/ who's in control type of thing...that's what we usually find  - and no, we no longer have any picky customers 


reminds me I need to pick up a 6 pack on the way home today

they are that picky with everything they do. It starts with their beer and moves on to packaging, marketing and so on. They had some problems many years ago when somebody was running the place for them and it could have put them out of business. Owners took over and the quality is number one priority with everything they touch since then. It has worked as they are adding 2 states a year and are up to 6k employees.

here's another one (fixed the bottom left corner, this was still during proofing)

pierre

[jvanick]

Nice prints... and at least that customer understands the 'cost' of perfection.

what I'd like to know is how you run those sim process jobs without color shifts mid-run? and what do you do when that starts happening?  Clean all the screens, run a few testers and then start again?

btw.. I've had a few 6'ers of the Elliot Ness from GLB... awesome stuff...

Lately tho, I've been on a 3rd Shift Amber kick... I really dig that beer... almost as much as I like the Labatts Blue that's in our keggerator righ tnow.

[3Deep]

Being picky is fine it keeps you up on your game, but being dumb picky, real picky, you trying me picky I can't handle.

darryl

[blue moon]

Nice prints... and at least that customer understands the 'cost' of perfection.

what I'd like to know is how you run those sim process jobs without color shifts mid-run? and what do you do when that starts happening?  Clean all the screens, run a few testers and then start again?

btw.. I've had a few 6'ers of the Elliot Ness from GLB... awesome stuff...

Lately tho, I've been on a 3rd Shift Amber kick... I really dig that beer... almost as much as I like the Labatts Blue that's in our keggerator righ tnow.

most of these are small runs, 144-288 so color shift is not an issue.
We always build up the bottoms of the screens by running 20+ scrap shirts first (have to be clean and same material or the buildup will be wrong). The ink we use is designed for WOW and if everything is set up properly we can go 1000+ without any issues. If there is a color shift, we have to start from scratch. Wipe off all of the screens, run 20 pieces again and then start.

pierre

[Homer]

Being picky is fine it keeps you up on your game, but being dumb picky, real picky, you trying me picky I can't handle.

darryl

i wanna kick back a few with this guy....

My new shirt..." You tryin' Me?.....


more patience than I do P....

[blue moon]

Being picky is fine it keeps you up on your game, but being dumb picky, real picky, you trying me picky I can't handle.

darryl

it is actually not as bad as you'd think. There is a very clear expectation of what is expected. They pay a premium to get it and it's up to us to deliver. The frustrating part is not in how they deal with us and what they want, but rather how to deliver on that level. We learn on every job and it keeps moving us forward.

pierre

[Dottonedan]

These types of jobs can go either way.  If the buyer is seasoned or has been down this road a few times, they begin to see and work with the printer more.  More often then not tho, they have no clue what is involved with getting these prints to look "on point" as my old friend Jeremy Duncan might say. So (these types) can be very costly to you up front for a long time on each new job. Profits become low on what you might think is a good customer.


You have to remember also, if you normal flow, your standard production flow is capable of being on par to print with such a high level of desired quality. Some of these jobs can take much more time out of production than anticipated.


A lot of us think we are better at something than what others might see. This doesn't really pertain to you or anything I know specifically. Just that not everyone is at this point of quality printing just yet. So it requires a deeper look at yourself.


Some might take these jobs on and think it all relies on the seps but the truth is, the seps are truly only one part. You need all players to be on point at all times on all orders for this type of work.


I'd at least give it your best shot. You may end up being just what they are looking for in both price and quality.


Also, ask about rejects or returns. How is that covered? Under what circumstances can they return something and when or at what point?

[mimosatexas]

Lately tho, I've been on a 3rd Shift Amber kick... I really dig that beer... almost as much as I like the Labatts Blue that's in our keggerator righ tnow.

I'm a beer snob and nothing bugs me more than mass production breweries making "fake" micro brews.  Third Shift is brewed in the same plant as Coors.  http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/306/87749/

I know it doesnt actually matter, especially if you like the beer.  It's just one of those things that bugs me

[jvanick]

We have plenty of micro brew around here..  but I'm kinda sick of these boutique micro brews that are so hoppy that they give me heartburn.  One of the reasons I like the 3rd shift.  Good taste, and cheap (er).

Of course as I type this, I'm on my 2nd pint of labatts. Lol

[ABuffington]

Mmmmmmm beer, a far better subject for the 4th.  My fav is La Suprema in El Salvador, followed by El Presidente from Dominican Republic, I need a beer, it's 5:30 somewhere!  (Of course in the states my band drinks Coors Light cause you can't get drunk on stage no matter how many you drink!).

Picky buyers settle down a lot once your product performs and sells.  I call their pickyness job justification.  We used to have to do 4-8 different samples of Mickey's red shorts for the buyer to get the red correct, sometimes more since this was discharge work.  After awhile we just did 3 and kept rotating the samples until they picked one!  I think it is a power thing with them, "oh this area just needs something more" yeah thats a real easy direction for the separator, just put 'more' here.   I need more than one beer after buyers like this.  But dial their stuff in a couple times and walk them through it and the approvals get easier after trust is built up and you send them off to lunch with a salesman.