Thin Thread Mesh - Godsend, or Forbidden Fruit?

[alan802]

Best picture ever.  And thanks for sharing the great tutorial.

Keep in mind that the courser mesh counts will have longer exposure times because the mesh is thicker and it holds more emulsion (more emulsion = longer exposure).

Have you ever had an "a-ha" moment that made you feel like a complete idiot at the same time?  I just did.

And another benefit of thin thread mesh that we didn't discuss, shorter exposure times due to overall thinner stencil/emulsion per screen.  When you put the entire package together it kind of makes sense that suppliers really love standard mesh counts over thin thread.  Less ink is used, less emulsion is used, faster exposures, bulbs last longer, less pressure needed, squeegee blades last longer, mesh lasts longer, stencils last longer, less strokes needed, PRESS lasts longer, and a few other benefits that all add up to being not good news for suppliers. 

[Frog]

And another benefit of thin thread mesh that we didn't discuss, shorter exposure times due to overall thinner stencil/emulsion per screen.  When you put the entire package together it kind of makes sense that suppliers really love standard mesh counts over thin thread.  Less ink is used, less emulsion is used, faster exposures, bulbs last longer, less pressure needed, squeegee blades last longer, mesh lasts longer, stencils last longer, less strokes needed, PRESS lasts longer, and a few other benefits that all add up to being not good news for suppliers.

Alan, that sounds a little paranoid. It reminds me of the internet posts of oil companies killing the inventors of engines that get ridiculously high mileage, or the greedy pharm companies that have cures for cancer, but don't want to release them.

In my shop, I have at least a half dozen conventional static screens with small repaired holes. $hit happens. Those same screens's ultra high tension, thin thread counterparts would be toast. The added fragility is enough to scare some folks off without the need for a conspiracy to keep s-mesh out of their hands.

Now, if the conversation continues in the conspiracy direction, I don't even know what section to which the tangent will get split! LOL!

So let's stick with LED's and general exposure issues.(which already is a little tangential from the initial post)

Thin threads, conventional threads, white threads, yellow, orange, or magenta; all counts, each should be tested for its own optimal exposure time.

Just to point out, this did indeed get split from the Baby Joe 2000 thread.

[alan802]

And another benefit of thin thread mesh that we didn't discuss, shorter exposure times due to overall thinner stencil/emulsion per screen.  When you put the entire package together it kind of makes sense that suppliers really love standard mesh counts over thin thread.  Less ink is used, less emulsion is used, faster exposures, bulbs last longer, less pressure needed, squeegee blades last longer, mesh lasts longer, stencils last longer, less strokes needed, PRESS lasts longer, and a few other benefits that all add up to being not good news for suppliers.

Alan, that sounds a little paranoid. It reminds me of the internet posts of oil companies killing the inventors of engines that get ridiculously high mileage, or the greedy pharm companies that have cures for cancer, but don't want to release them.

In my shop, I have at least a half dozen conventional static screens with small repaired holes. $hit happens. Those same screens's ultra high tension, thin thread counterparts would be toast. The added fragility is enough to scare some folks off without the need for a conspiracy to keep s-mesh out of their hands.

Now, if the conversation continues in the conspiracy direction, I don't even know what section to which the tangent will get split! LOL!

So let's stick with LED's and general exposure issues.(which already is a little tangential form the initial post)

Thin threads, conventional threads, white threads, yellow, orange, or magenta; all counts, each should be tested for its own optimal exposure time.

Yeah, that's almost exactly like those examples Frog.  So what is your take on why the standard mesh counts became "standard"?  I'd like to hear another take on why things have become the way they have.  If the standard mesh is only the standard because it's what benefits the textile printer the most in the long term then I'm completely wrong with my paranoia.   

[Frog]

Fragility
Hearken back to the time when dip tanks were not the norm, but elbow grease and stiff scrub brushes were.

Btw, I seem to remember thin thread mesh being available many years ago I don't think it just came out.


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[ebscreen]

Well, FWIW it did take a long time to get the Volkswagon TDI here in the states...

[alan802]

Fragility
Hearken back to the time when dip tanks were not the norm, but elbow grease and stiff scrub brushes were.

Btw, I seem to remember thin thread mesh being available many years ago I don't think it just came out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's common knowledge thin thread has been around 20+ years.  I have to rely on certain guys who were in the industry long before me and have more knowledge than I when it comes to things like this.  I know most of the time it looks like I'm just a lemming who follows the words of our JC blindly, but it's really not that way at all.  But in the best book every written on textile screen printing it is quite clear that thin thread is what we should all be using yet for reasons outside of the printers control it isn't that way at all.  And I've printed with standard and thin thread so again I'm not blindly following Joe's words in this case.  In the future the guy doing the mesh ordering will be in charge of what mesh count he/she uses at their shop and that's the way it should have always been.

 

[Frog]

  So what is your take on why the standard mesh counts became "standard"?  I'd like to hear another take on why things have become the way they have.  If the standard mesh is only the standard because it's what benefits the textile printer the most in the long term then I'm completely wrong with my paranoia.   

To change the first word in my last post now that I am in front of a real monitor 9rather than my phone) and see the actual question I was supposed to answer.


Compromise.

The standard threads, offered acceptable results along with a certain toughness to stand up to a degree of bullying.

Now that folks are concentrating more on less and less hand, reclaim becoming less abusive, and availability of the mesh increasing, they are growing in favor.

I still don't see smoke filled rooms of meetings of screen print suppliers mapping out strategies to keep these out of your hands to sell you more ink.

[Frog]

Well, FWIW it did take a long time to get the Volkswagon TDI here in the states...

How else could you get folks into Smart cars that get no better mileage? LOL!
Ironic that most diesels that we saw for years were Mercedes also.

[sqslabs]

Love the thread title. 

I'd guess price would have something to do with it as well, but mostly on the supplier's side.  Since the thicker thread is cheaper, those making screens to sell go with that in the same way many printers are always looking for a cheaper route with their inks.  The less the supplies cost, the more the profit margin.

I say this as someone who didn't even know thin thread mesh existed until a short while ago, but not because I wasn't looking.  In my own history of ordering screens, I've never seen one advertised with the second number available (as in 150-48) until ordering my thin thread statics a few weeks ago.

Of course there are those who may be buying screens and don't know the benefits of thin thread mesh, who would also go with the cheaper purchase.  But I do believe if there was more information out there on the benefits, as well as a better understanding of the overall costs incurred from mesh in any shop, a lot more printers would be using it.  Now that I've seen the results first hand, I'm looking to stock my shop with S-Mesh as quickly as possible and I'm sure many others will too, now that the proverbial cat is out of the bag.

[prozyan]

No one has brought up the tension question yet.  Forever, high tension was the God of advanced screen printing.  You were either above 40n/cm or you were a hobbyist.

Considering that thin mesh cannot attain tensions that high, I'm sure that played some role in thicker thread mesh becoming the standard.

[Frog]

Love the thread title. 

Hopefully Alan forgives me for not pointing out that this is the title I gave to the thread that was split from the Baby Joe 2000 discussion.

[Gilligan]

Yes there are many "smart cars" out there that can do even better on gas than what we have here, have higher emmissions standards and I'm sure are as safe as those tin cans and they aren't available here and WON'T be available here.

It's quite ironic.

Also our Alstyle rep came in the other day and mentioned that when he moved from California (CARB), that his car that just past smog inspection wouldn't pass the Texas smog inspection.  Funny that the most "eco" friendly state has more laxed rules than a red gunslinging state (totally tongue in cheek as the gun laws of texas kind of suck).

[Frog]

Yes there are many "smart cars" out there that can do even better on gas than what we have here, have higher emmissions standards and I'm sure are as safe as those tin cans and they aren't available here and WON'T be available here.

It's quite ironic.

Also our Alstyle rep came in the other day and mentioned that when he moved from California (CARB), that his car that just past smog inspection wouldn't pass the Texas smog inspection.  Funny that the most "eco" friendly state has more laxed rules than a red gunslinging state (totally tongue in cheek as the gun laws of texas kind of suck).

This car talk is definitely straying, but what's new?
I have not heard that Texas(certain smoggy counties) smogging is tougher, but I do see that it is annual while ours is every two years. I wonder if he was close to the limit in CA in one category or so, and it went that little bit further after the move. All it takes is a bad ring on the gas cap.
There's not passing, and there's NOT PASSING! Curious about the details on stories like this.

I do know that though not part of the smog test in Texas, gun racks are required in all trucks.

We also haven't had the safety test in almost 40 years!

[Gilligan]

Don't know the details, but he did sell the car vs fixing it... So that is that.

[ZooCity]

I really think that fear of stretching it is what keeps it from being common.  It is very delicate to handle in screen making production and requires the proper steps to successfully stretch and glue onto a frame.  I think no one wants to do those steps so they either skip it or offer it at maybe 22 n/cm at best.