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Waterbase and Discharge
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Need ideas how to fix this...
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Topic: Need ideas how to fix this... (Read 15308 times)
Screened Gear
Gonzo Member
Posts: 2580
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #90 on:
July 07, 2014, 12:12:03 AM »
I don't know about the flo orange but I printed some flo pink manually a few weeks ago and it had alot of pigment. It was my first time using the flow colors so maybe they all feel like they do. I mixed in some base and some water just to get it flowing right. I printed it manually because it was only 24 shirts. If I remember correctly I ran them though the dryer twice. Most DC jobs only go though once.
With high humidity its not just the ink you have to evaporate. The shirt will hold moisture just from the air. This will make it harder to cure that shirt. When I am printing 2 or more DC colors on a shirt with decent coverage I will put my flash on for a few seconds just to help. I'm in Arizona and its dry here most of the time but when the humidity is up from a storm, I know it.
Can you run the shirts one more time and see if they cure? Good Question. Another question is if you have the shirts why have you not tried that? That would have been my first test. From my knowledge, You can not get the shirts to discharge anymore after the agent has expired. I have had inks I mixed still have some active agent after 2 weeks but that was ink in a closed container. Will the ink that was already reacted cure after the shirts have sat? I honestly don't see why not. The binders are still there. Everyone tells you, you have to evaporate all the water out before the shirt can cure so a dried binder must still work. I say try and see.
Either way there is something that did this. The fact that the other colors cured (even some flo colors on the shirts) makes me think the orange is special or it was printed differently.
You will find the answer but you will drive your self nuts until then. It bothers me and its not even my shop.
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TCT
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 2877
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #91 on:
July 07, 2014, 08:11:46 AM »
JON- I have been to Arizona many times, you guys can't even spell humidity!
I have tried a bunch of things with these shirts, put them through the dryer many 3 times... I think I am going to try to s l o w it down to a crawl and try to put them through again.
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Alex
Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...
www.twincitytees.com
Parker 1
Sr. Member
Posts: 473
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #92 on:
July 07, 2014, 09:00:32 AM »
Alex, how do the strips work? Do they measure temp & duration? Asking because you could have cool spots in your dryer, causing the ink to discharge but not at temp long enough for the pigment to bind/adhere to the fabric.
Chris
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3Deep
!!!
Ludicrous Speed Member
Posts: 5323
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #93 on:
July 07, 2014, 12:01:48 PM »
I say take the shirts or a handful and let someone else run them thru there dyer and see what you get, it's your dryer or someone might have mixed the ink wrong, I do hope you get this problem solved.
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Life is like Kool-Aid, gotta add sugar/hardwork to make it sweet!!
CCI
Verified/Junior
Posts: 34
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #94 on:
July 07, 2014, 01:30:19 PM »
Hi
I've taken some pictures this morning of the returned shirts and a prints using the retuned ink.
In answer to some of the questions we used 155 mesh, 5% activator and our prints were done on material cut from the returned shirts.
As you can see from the pictures, I feel that the cause of the problem is not enough ink laydown/penetration; whether this is from lack of pressure, squeegee type, snap....or another reason. I don't feel this is anything to do with cure.
I know these pictures differ from ones previously posted and show far less coverage on the customer printed shirt .. I have no explanation for that but this goes a long way in explain why it washes off.
If anyone has any other questions feel free to ask or if you think we should test something else please let me know
Regards
CCI
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TCT
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 2877
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #95 on:
July 07, 2014, 01:47:19 PM »
We used a 80 duro squeegee on the print.
1) What duro did you guys use?
2) Is the pigment load on the D-Flo shirts high?
3) Can you think of any way to salvage the shirts that we have that have not been worn, just sat in the box?
Thanks
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Alex
Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...
www.twincitytees.com
ebscreen
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 4278
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #96 on:
July 07, 2014, 02:08:40 PM »
80's pretty hard for waterbase. We like 60 or 70, usually the former.
What does the inside of the garment look like?
No fix unfortunately.
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East Bay Screenprint
CCI
Verified/Junior
Posts: 34
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #97 on:
July 07, 2014, 02:09:16 PM »
1) not 100% sure but I believe its 60. I hand print all tests
2) Its up there but nowhere near as high as the amount of pigment typically used in a white for example
3) That's tough...unless you can align each shirt exactly I don't see how you can save this. Maybe print a patch of color over the top and reprint with plastisol ??
I also think the white has washed of considerably but doesn't show as much because the shirt actually discharges to quite a white color ( see our original post with a d-base premium print)
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CCI
Verified/Junior
Posts: 34
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #98 on:
July 07, 2014, 02:13:05 PM »
The inside of the returned shirts shows no sign of the discharge or print which is another indication of possible lack of pressure. My test prints all show a reasonable amount of the print on the inside; I don't feel like I'm pressing very hard when I print.
I've attached a picture from the inside of my test print and the returned shirt before washing. The area directly to the right of my print is the inside area of the returned shirt.
The picture looks more discharged than real life if anyone's thinking we have too much ink going through the shirt
«
Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 02:27:01 PM by CCI
»
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Homer
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 3203
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #99 on:
July 07, 2014, 02:22:59 PM »
Alex - I have the tests printing right now too....I'll follow up after a few wash cycles...
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...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...
dirkdiggler
Gonzo Member
Posts: 1803
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #100 on:
July 07, 2014, 06:05:54 PM »
80 durometer seems WAY to hard and won't put down enough ink. we use 60, but what do I know?
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If he gets up, we'll all get up, IT'LL BE ANARCHY!-John Bender
Colin
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 1610
Ink and Chemical Product Manager
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #101 on:
July 07, 2014, 06:50:38 PM »
I just ran a 3 color using 55/90/55. I will typically use 65/90/65's for my waterbase/discharge printing.
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Been in the industry since 1996. 5+ years with QCM Inks. Been a part of shops of all sizes and abilities both as a printer and as an Artist/separator. I am now the Ink and Chemical Product Manager at Ryonet.
jvanick
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 2477
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #102 on:
July 07, 2014, 07:00:28 PM »
We use 60/90/60s on just about every job except for highly detailed halftones.
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TCT
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 2877
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #103 on:
July 07, 2014, 07:04:29 PM »
Quote from: dirkdiggler on July 07, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
we use 60, but what do I know?
Clearly more than me!
This whole thing has me thrown in a crazy way. We have printed thousands of shirts the way we printed these(not saying how we did it is right) but never had a issue till these 3 jobs.... I totally understand the reasoning of the poor penetration and I'm not arguing it, it just has me so confused! I am a guy that like it when 2+2=4, there is no gray area left. This situation is adding up to more of a 3.8
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Alex
Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...
www.twincitytees.com
TCT
!!!
Gonzo Member
Posts: 2877
Re: Need ideas how to fix this...
«
Reply #104 on:
July 07, 2014, 07:09:34 PM »
SORRY!!! Now I really look like a fool! It is a 70 duro squeegee we used! Everyone questioning it had me check again, green is 70!
Anyone have a rock I can hide under?
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Alex
Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...
www.twincitytees.com
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Waterbase and Discharge
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Need ideas how to fix this...