Printing WB on top of DC white

[TCT]

So is printing waterbased inks on top of a white discharge underbase a "no go"? I know we have not had success printing on top of CCI D-White, but does that usually apply to all brands?

We just had a customer come in with a shirt we printed that damn near washed out after 3 washes:-  We have never had this issue before but that is the only thing I can think of that makes sense....

Rutland discharge white plus as a base, with brown(CCI W-Base) on top.

What went wrong here guys?

[ericheartsu]

So is printing waterbased inks on top of a white discharge underbase a "no go"? I know we have not had success printing on top of CCI D-White, but does that usually apply to all brands?

We just had a customer come in with a shirt we printed that damn near washed out after 3 washes:-  We have never had this issue before but that is the only thing I can think of that makes sense....

Rutland discharge white plus as a base, with brown(CCI W-Base) on top.

What went wrong here guys?

We've had it happen before too. I think we found there was to much white in the base, as well as adding a flash to flash the base helped a ton.

[TCT]

We've had it happen before too. I think we found there was to much white in the base, as well as adding a flash to flash the base helped a ton.

So the flash helping like you said, leads me to believe maybe it is a not fully cured situation.... ? You may be on to something there, as we have printed like this before with no issues that I know about.

This whole thing really has me thrown!

This

[Dottonedan]

I don't know much about what to add or how much of this or that on the discharge white, but I do know that there is nothing wrong at all with printing waterbase inks over discharge underbase. In fact, it's preferred in many waterbased shops. Thats the only way many do it.

[TCT]

I don't know much about what to add or how much of this or that on the discharge white, but I do know that there is nothing wrong at all with printing waterbase inks over discharge underbase. In fact, it's preferred in many waterbased shops. Thats the only way many do it.

That's kinda been my thoughts also Dan, but I can't for the life of me figure this one out! I personally have not had good results printing on top of CCI D-White even though they say you can...

This whole situation is just bizarre, the worst part is it is a job I actually printed myself so I can't pass the blame on this one:P

[ZooCity]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

[ericheartsu]

the jobs we were doing this on was the canvas 3001 tees, but they were weird non discharging colors, like royal and purple

[TCT]

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

Ha! Figured I'd get this, only I thought it would be from Tony:D
It was a smaller job and we did it with the white underbase as more of "practice" for printing that way(WB top colors). Looks like we were practicing the wrong way!!

[ZooCity]

Ok, so are yinz talking about standard WB inks over DC base?  We don't typically do that aside from a little overprinting here and there on mixed DC/WB runs. 

We do put plastisol and HSA over a DC base but never a straight DC white, the pig will block the adheshion.  With HSA that's not always as beneficial as it sounds due to the need for that ink to build a film but working on it. 

[Parker 1]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

^^This^^
We will only use a 80/20 mix on problem shirts, Blends, Blues, Greens. 
The Guys at Forward printing showed me a print at LB the did with D_Base ( no white added) with Waterbase on top.  Good looking print. 

Chris

[IntegrityShirts]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

^^This^^
We will only use a 80/20 mix on problem shirts, Blends, Blues, Greens. 
The Guys at Forward printing showed me a print at LB the did with D_Base ( no white added) with Waterbase on top.  Good looking print. 

Chris

Did you check to see if the waterbased ink on top was an opaque wb ink or a clear base with pigment? Sorry to bring this one back up, but I'm getting ready to do a run on some problem blends and I'm thinking of running only a base, then OPAQUE top wb colors mixed from a white wb base.

I have had my top colors blown out by a clear dc base before when printing with "no white" top rc waterbased colors.

[Parker 1]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

^^This^^
We will only use a 80/20 mix on problem shirts, Blends, Blues, Greens. 
The Guys at Forward printing showed me a print at LB the did with D_Base ( no white added) with Waterbase on top.  Good looking print. 

Chris

Did you check to see if the waterbased ink on top was an opaque wb ink or a clear base with pigment? Sorry to bring this one back up, but I'm getting ready to do a run on some problem blends and I'm thinking of running only a base, then OPAQUE top wb colors mixed from a white wb base.

I have had my top colors blown out by a clear dc base before when printing with "no white" top rc waterbased colors.

It was an opaque WB.  I believe its Green Galaxy and to my knowledge it has not been released yet.

Chris

[IntegrityShirts]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

^^This^^
We will only use a 80/20 mix on problem shirts, Blends, Blues, Greens. 
The Guys at Forward printing showed me a print at LB the did with D_Base ( no white added) with Waterbase on top.  Good looking print. 

Chris

Did you check to see if the waterbased ink on top was an opaque wb ink or a clear base with pigment? Sorry to bring this one back up, but I'm getting ready to do a run on some problem blends and I'm thinking of running only a base, then OPAQUE top wb colors mixed from a white wb base.

I have had my top colors blown out by a clear dc base before when printing with "no white" top rc waterbased colors.

It was an opaque WB.  I believe its Green Galaxy and to my knowledge it has not been released yet.

Chris

Awesome, thanks! That makes sense and gives me the confidence to try it out rather than just print plastisol which I KNOW will work.

[Frog]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

^^This^^
We will only use a 80/20 mix on problem shirts, Blends, Blues, Greens. 
The Guys at Forward printing showed me a print at LB the did with D_Base ( no white added) with Waterbase on top.  Good looking print. 

Chris

Did you check to see if the waterbased ink on top was an opaque wb ink or a clear base with pigment? Sorry to bring this one back up, but I'm getting ready to do a run on some problem blends and I'm thinking of running only a base, then OPAQUE top wb colors mixed from a white wb base.

I have had my top colors blown out by a clear dc base before when printing with "no white" top rc waterbased colors.

It was an opaque WB.  I believe its Green Galaxy and to my knowledge it has not been released yet.

Chris

Not being a water base and discharge printer, I may be missing something, but doesn't running a discharge underbase preclude the need for opaque colors on top? Won't there be more hand than you are usually shooting for?

[IntegrityShirts]

Too much white pig.  Go to the 80/20 or 70/30 base/premix white, like with plastisol and try that.  Always test this!

Why not straight DC on this stuff?

^^This^^
We will only use a 80/20 mix on problem shirts, Blends, Blues, Greens. 
The Guys at Forward printing showed me a print at LB the did with D_Base ( no white added) with Waterbase on top.  Good looking print. 

Chris

Did you check to see if the waterbased ink on top was an opaque wb ink or a clear base with pigment? Sorry to bring this one back up, but I'm getting ready to do a run on some problem blends and I'm thinking of running only a base, then OPAQUE top wb colors mixed from a white wb base.

I have had my top colors blown out by a clear dc base before when printing with "no white" top rc waterbased colors.

It was an opaque WB.  I believe its Green Galaxy and to my knowledge it has not been released yet.

Chris

Not being a water base and discharge printer, I may be missing something, but doesn't running a discharge underbase preclude the need for opaque colors on top? Won't there be more hand than you are usually shooting for?

This is what I thought too, and the reason why I didn't make an opaque top color on that print run. The DC base washes out the top color turning it pastel, I assume because the base garment is already soaked with ink and can only handle so much more with the top coat along with the pigment eating nature of DC, makes for a really off-print.  Printing an opaque (or maybe partially opaque) top color keeps the DC under the colored ink where it is supposed to be and prevents "mixing".  If you think about it like that, I diluted my pigmented top color by 50% when printing it over a DC base.

Tony will probably come in and say just print all your DC colors as DC colors, don't underbase.  For this particular job I have some blended turquoise and cardinal shirts that need the extra bump of an opaque color. Should still end up softer than plastisol though...I hope!