Artist > ART Pricing

Custom Designs vs Clipart/Stock Art

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Screened Gear:
I was a freelance graphic designer for 8 years.  Then I got a screen printing press to make myself a few shirts off craigslist. I was so burned out on doing graphic design and printing I got out of it. Now I am a screen printer. Being an artist is fun and rewarding only if you have the right clients. If your just getting started and you want to do high end it will not be easy. You will have to do crap work to get by until you can grow the high end part of your business. (unless you want to live poor) I did mid to high end design work mostly for professional services like doctors, accountants and other firm type companies. There is a ton of work out there but if you don't figure out business and making money you will not last. Most Artists want to do art all day long. That is not possible to do. You will get burned out in less than 4 years. You have to have another line of income. I learned this about 2 years in to my freelance work. With design or the design that I did I was always working with new clients. I would do 40 to 60 businesses a year and many times only work with them a few times in the first 6 months of them being a business. I just did design so I did all there marketing materials: logos, business cards, signage,  websites so on. After that there was no need for me. I didn't want to do anything but design. It was easy for me and I could charge 10 to 15 hours for 2 or 3 hours of actual work. What I learned in year 2 was that I needed residual income. I needed money coming in on work that I did already. To do this I partnered with a few printers locally and a gang run printer (before gang run printers were all over the internet) Once I did that I was able to make 2 to 3 hundred percent profit on selling items at market value. I still did artwork but once the art work was done I made as much if not more supplying the print materials. I wasn't so burned out and I was able to do the art that I wanted to and not have to work so hard at always getting new clients.

For design work the screen printing industry would not be my first choice of industries to work with. Screen printers are cheap and always in a hurry (its true, you know it). There is not that many jobs that would allow high end design from most printers. What this means is you will need to have alot of screen printers as clients. You may only be able to get a few jobs a month to a few jobs a year from each of them. Now the good thing about the screen printing industry is there is alot of work. If you did all levels of design for a good price you will have too much work.

That's all I have.

Screened Gear:

--- Quote from: Dottonedan on May 17, 2014, 02:37:13 PM ---
--- Quote ---
So I noticed when I started out and only offered design and not shirt printing fulfillment that I was missing out on a lucrative part of the business and as having difficulty competing with the shops like the one I used to work at because I had to charge more (from the client POV) for the artwork.


Mat Woodworth
www.boldlinedesign.com

--- End quote ---



Yes,  this is another side of the art and tee quoting dilemma.  IN a perfect world, everyone would charge the same and quotes would be itemized the same and customers could compare apples to apple and quality for that price.
Thats never going to happen and as it is, we have people burying art prices into the cost...making the per piece look high...and potentially losing a shirt order over that as well.


Then, (as I had just recently been talking with a printer about), if you were to line item an art charge of $200.00 but be $5.70 on shirt price for first time order, the customers go nuts because of the $200.00 art charge. They may say, "Well, X Co down the road doesn't charge me art at all" and charged me $5.75 on the per piece, but they don't see that X Co charged $25.00 for screens on the reorder and also $25.00 on the initial order.


It seems to be a "where can I hide charges" game and a play with the customers head (so they don't flip out) thing. To the printers point of view, I can certainly see customers that don't understand. THey can't grasp the differences and value. So more often than not, a charge is built in or hidden just to make life easier for everyone.




Another interesting thing I've learned over the years is that some printers may ask if you can work on a job at a lower price (as the order is low quantity) or the customer doesn't have the budget for the art.

What can tick me off tho, is that on occasions such as this, a printer can sometimes tell you this, but mark up the price 30%-50% like they do on any other cost once they've received a discount on art. Now, that (marking up a cost) in and of itself is not the problem, thats business. The problem is that (in this case), on this job... they've asked me to come down on something so they can get this order. I've worked with them on price, yet they've gone back and still marked that price up.  I've given some off, but (THEY) have not taken any concessions in order to gain this order. What they should have done, to get the price lower, is just not mark up the art at all.
Asking me come down, "so they can help their customer" but they don't come down on anything...is deceitful.

--- End quote ---


You need to stop nogotiating price to get a job. Your customer is the screen printer not his customer. What I mean is deal with your customer (the screen printer) as the end customer for you. Your customer (the screen printer) needs the art to get the job If they can beat you up on price then they will to get the job. If they can't they will find somewhere else to cut costs or take a hit. So many times people say they don't like working with X and Y company because they can't make as good of money as they want. The truth is you need to stick to your guns on your price. If your "art" is worth it people will pay for it. If I needed great art work for a large order I wouldn't even charge the customer for the art. I would also not up my print cost to cover the art. Large orders are worth the cost of good art. plus by not charging the customer for the art they don't own it. They have to come back to me if they want ot print more. (or they steal it and have another printer reproduce the art, whatever) I usually do my own art so it is only time (time=money, whatever). If you discount art for one job you know that customer will find any reason they can to have to discount it on the next job. You will never be able to go back after going down that road with a customer. I believe in setting your price and then setting a bottom line discount price. This way when the customer is giving you the sad story, and you want to help them, you know not to go below a set predetermined price that your happy working at. I rarely give the discounted rate. Stick to your pricing its how you make money.  After your paid, who cares if they up charge it or give it away. You sold that art, you made your money, move on.

Dottonedan:
I personally don't give discounts all the time or "a lot", but I will occasionally. Most times someone is looking to keep colors down as much as possible when they say, "customer is on a tight budget for art".

2ndly, when I do give a discount, I am I only referring to those (that still up charge). And for this reason, it is my business what they charge afterwords. When I hear of this, (what makes me feel as if they are taking advantage of me), I drop them as a customer.

Lastly, when I do a discount, it's not for the reason that (I need the work), thinking that they may go elsewhere. I do it (when I do it), because I want to assist my customers. They (99.9%) of the time are truly just wanting to get this order.  As any printer knows, there are "some orders" that need a little flexibility. I like to think that my customers know they can trust Dot-Tone-Dan is there (on their side) when they truly need some assistance.

Like I said, for me it's probably 1% or something that take advantage and when I sense this, I stop working with them.

Frog:
Brings up a thought and a couple of questions to me.

Should there generally be room for mark-up in the price from artists creating for printers?

Do most printers mark up the art they hire out?

Screened Gear:

--- Quote from: Dottonedan on May 18, 2014, 03:05:27 PM ---I personally don't give discounts all the time or "a lot", but I will occasionally. Most times someone is looking to keep colors down as much as possible when they say, "customer is on a tight budget for art".

2ndly, when I do give a discount, I am I only referring to those (that still up charge). And for this reason, it is my business what they charge afterwords. When I hear of this, (what makes me feel as if they are taking advantage of me), I drop them as a customer.

Lastly, when I do a discount, it's not for the reason that (I need the work), thinking that they may go elsewhere. I do it (when I do it), because I want to assist my customers. They (99.9%) of the time are truly just wanting to get this order.  As any printer knows, there are "some orders" that need a little flexibility. I like to think that my customers know they can trust Dot-Tone-Dan is there (on their side) when they truly need some assistance.

Like I said, for me it's probably 1% or something that take advantage and when I sense this, I stop working with them.

--- End quote ---

Dan in my opinion that is how everyone should be. I hate to hear guys that work really hard tell me that they bend over backwards for certain customers and not get paid as much by them. I know we all need to put food on the table and pay rent and other bills. Maybe its that I am in a large town and have more possibilities for customers but If you don't let "bad" customers know they are bad or let them go your hurting your business. Its like the old 20/80 or 80/20 rule. 20 percent of your clients make you 80 percent of your income. Even if that customer is in your 20 percent if you have to work harder for them they may not be a good customer for you. Its hard to let customers go but I  have done it many times in almost 6 years. I have to say every time I do I think about the lost money. But then shortly after I realize how much time and effect I was putting in to that customer was not worth the money. Good luck all with a great summer of business

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