Making color count choice for new auto?

[screenprintguy]

As we are planning the addition of a new press to our mix, we are tossed up between the decision of 12 or 14 colors. I know some of you guys have added machines within the last couple of years, or others have been around long enough to have been here before. I know there are ongoing arguments between printers and their print styles as to how many colors a press "needs" to be, in order to print a certain color count in one revolution. But for all intents and purposes, let's be realistic in the thinking here. There is obviously a difference in price on a 12 col and a 14 col machine, but has anyone gone the 12 color press route and wished they went for the extra 2 colors? We do some re-curring 8 color spot color runs that currently tie up our DB, which is a 9 color, 1 in head flash, 10 station machine. This print, to be as the "customer" wants, requires 3 revolutions. Moving forward, we would like to be in the single revolution position. We've been printing this customer's merch for almost 7 years now, so trust me when I say, the final look needs to stay where it is and we've done everything under the sun separation wise, and always end up back at the basic for them to be happy. I also know they are just one customer, but since we do this work for them, quite a few other customers have come on with us for similar work. Ok enough about seps, mainly let's get on track about the color count choice on a press. Danny G, you do what looks like a ton of 8 color printing. Do you find that having the 12 col is sufficient, or do you think would go for 14 next time around? Dirk, I know you were looking at 12 originally, but now that you have the 14, do are you stoked knowing you have those extra heads? Any of the other guys please weigh in. Bimmridder, I know you guys have a various count from 16 col's down. What are your thoughts?

Thanks guys!

Mike

[alan802]

I personally think a 12 color press is perfect for our shop and what we do which consists of at least a few 7 to 8 color jobs per week that we currently do on a 10 color.  We've never turned down a job due to our press but have had to print jobs in 2 revolutions, never have needed 3 revolutions before but I can see how some might need that done.  When we upgrade, it will be a 12 color because of our experience with the 10 and our capability with it.  We just need a few more cool down spots when we do those large color count jobs more than needing another head for printing.  Of course a 14 color would be nicer and we'd throw in a 3rd flash with a 14 so depending on the deal we got there is a possibility we could buy a 14 but it's a slim chance.  Since there hasn't been anything that we've failed at printing with a 10 I don't see a huge need for a 14 color but I could be persuaded.

[dirkdiggler]

I would have been happy with a 12 and 2 tacanas, I am more happy with a 14, cards just fell my way that day.  I would say 99.9% of the time you can print most jobs on the 12 in 1 revolution.  Having 2 more is a bonus.  We don't do a lot of contract stuff, but I am currently looking into it, and what I have found is that there are FEW that have a 14 color and its a huge bonus for me by being able to print what other guys cant.  Also, although you can print 8 colors on the Dback, you can print it BETTER with a bigger press.  Cool down positions are AWESOME!  IMO!  You have to do what fits in your budget, look at it this way, either is better than your current situation.  Some advice though, DO NOT GET RID OF YOUR DBACK!  Smartest thing I ever did was NOT trade mine in.

[GraphicDisorder]

12 is pretty sweet, for us I wouldn't have less than 12 now that we have a 12.  IMO buy the largest machine you can swing for at the time. Not everyone's market is the same though.  For what its worth even if your not printing jobs that require most of the heads you can at the every least gang up jobs thus having less set up and break downs.  I dunno about you guys but when we can put 2-3 jobs on the press at once it seems to be faster to me.   

[dirkdiggler]

12 is pretty sweet, for us I wouldn't have less than 12 now that we have a 12.  IMO buy the largest machine you can swing for at the time. Not everyone's market is the same though.  For what its worth even if your not printing jobs that require most of the heads you can at the every least gang up jobs thus having less set up and break downs.  I dunno about you guys but when we can put 2-3 jobs on the press at once it seems to be faster to me.   

I had 6 jobs set up on my CH3 and 3 on my DB before I went home the other day, when I came in the next morning jobs were flying out of here fast!

[screenprintguy]

12 is pretty sweet, for us I wouldn't have less than 12 now that we have a 12.  IMO buy the largest machine you can swing for at the time. Not everyone's market is the same though.  For what its worth even if your not printing jobs that require most of the heads you can at the every least gang up jobs thus having less set up and break downs.  I dunno about you guys but when we can put 2-3 jobs on the press at once it seems to be faster to me.   

I had 6 jobs set up on my CH3 and 3 on my DB before I went home the other day, when I came in the next morning jobs were flying out of here fast!

now that's what I'm talkin about!!!!!!!

[balloonguy]

I am in the more colors camp. You may not NEED them but I am sure it will come in handy on more than 1 occasion.

[screenprintguy]

I am in the more colors camp. You may not NEED them but I am sure it will come in handy on more than 1 occasion.

Thanks for the input, I'm thinking that we are leaning towards the bigger of the two for this reason here.

[alan802]

You have to choose at some point where you draw the line on what you're willing to pay for a press, hence the color limit.  Personally I'd buy a 12 color Ch 3 over 16 color Ch 2.

[jsheridan]

nothing less than a 14 color

[Lizard]

If money is an issue M&R will build you a 12 color, 16 station.

[screenprintguy]

If money is an issue M&R will build you a 12 color, 16 station.

So in this configuration, you are basically setting 2 dedicated spots for flashes correct? I guess that's not the worst thing in the world. At least knowing you will always have a flash at either head 2 or 3 depending if you use a lint screen or not. We haven't gotten into the lint screen, but it's a thought since blanks seem to be getting dustier by the week. This isn't a bad idea at all going with 3 flash units, 2 could be in dedicated position eliminating those print heads, and then the third can be a floater. Thanks for the input Lizard!

[DannyGruninger]

Mike, here's my .02 for what it's worth........ As you know our ch3 is a 12 color machine, had we had a large enough spot on the floor for a 14 color we would have gone that route. There's only a handful of times since we've had our press that I wish I had the 2 extra print heads which would have made the job run easier but personally I don't feel like we ever really sacrifice the overall print quality with our 12 color machine. Most of the prints we do are 8-9 color which gives us 2 flashes and a roller screen(we usually don't run a cool down station as I setup fans instead which work for us) and I feel like 99% of the stuff we print looks really good with 9 or less screens. If I had the 14 color I would def. take advantage and print more color on the prints we do but I don't think any of our clients would ever know the difference. Personally I feel like a 12 color machine should be able to do 90% of the work out there and that's 1 revolution. Like Lizard suggested, if cost is a concern which is always is for me I would strongly look at the 12/16 option to add 2 heads later. This will give you some nice flash/cool down stations and the ability to expand in a couple years. I'm going to be replacing my dback this year hopefully with a 3d and that will be another 12 color press. Like I said I think 12 color machine can do 99% of the work out there but we do run into a few times every once in a while where 14 would be ideal. Knowing what I know about your operation I think a 12 color would be a fantastic decision. My other advice is go with the digital package if you can, I kick myself in the ass all the time that our ch3 is not digital. Job recipe would be a dream for me around here..... I know you went to dirks but if you wanted to plan to come out here I'd spend a weekend day with you running some jobs, etc if needed.


Danny

[jsheridan]

If money is an issue M&R will build you a 12 color, 16 station.

So in this configuration, you are basically setting 2 dedicated spots for flashes correct?

That and expansion later by buying the other two heads.

[TCT]

I'm pretty jealous of you S.O.Bs! We were pushing our space limits with a 10 color XL!   After measuring, the only way we are fitting something bigger than a 10 color is if we go with a oval press...

I would think the main advantage of going up from a 12 color would be setting up multiple jobs at one time. Which is a huge advantage. A 12/16, I think I would drive myself crazy trying to decide where the second "opening" would go! What about a 13/16?

Just curious, on a 12/16 where would people leave open? I would leave 3 open and MAYBE 8, but I would without a doubt drive myself crazy second guessing that 8 though!