Very discouraged

[Appstro]

So I have done about 10 - 12 jobs now. Each job has been a huge learning experience. Some of them pretty costly... For the most part I feel that I am making progress in my learning and I expect to make a ton of mistakes so no worries... However, I am getting pretty discouraged with the "clean up" part of screen printing. I have been doing jobs and carding the ink off of my screens and squeegees. BUT I have let the screens and squeegees sit for two weeks while I do other jobs.

Last time I reclaimed screens it took several hours. Lots of ink waste, lots of scrubbing, getting wet, lots of chemical. A huge amount of time to clean 10 screens. Then a few days later apply emulsion to all the screens. The whole process I figure was 5 hours of work.

So yesterday I again dropped more money into this, well lets call it a hobby......for what seemed to be a great idea! A dip tank and chemicals!! I read several reviews, some great and some terrible. I bought the easiway tank and Supra one step stuff.

The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely.. So I did what I have been doing all along.... I scrubbed the screens with emulsion remover and ink degradent. The screens were clean...Time saved from before I had the dip tank - ZERO. The next batch I pre cleaned as much as possible but left a little ink on them....Same thing..still scrubbing. All in all, last night I scrubbed 12 screens for 4-5 hours. What a huge time wasting pile of dung this is!!

Screen printing has been difficult and costly for me. I am making money but most of it seems to be going to other people supporting my efforts. People dont want to pay more than 5-8 dollars a shirt. The time it takes to prepare for and then clean up the mess is not profitable to me and I cant charge the customer for it. The $30 per color set up fee that I am charging doesnt even seem like enough to me at this point.

If I am going to succeed in this venture I need to process screens more efficiently. I need to clean up quickly at the end of every run. How I do this I am not sure. I am doing something wrong. I know it..

I am actually thinking about buying a new screen for every job and chucking it in a pile for craigslist when I am done. That seems more efficient than spending 5 hours cleaning and prepping them.

Perhaps I am terribly mistaken here and need to understand how to do things correctly. Do you guys have any advice for me? I really hate cleaning all these damn screens. Its like I am a dishwasher in some seedy cafe somewhere....

As always thank you for your time and advice!

[inkman996]

You should lay out your steps exactly and the chemical brands you use so we can help. It really sounds like your doing something wrong in your process. For instance my guy can do 15+ screens an hour that includes ink removal, emulsion removal, and dehazing.

Just a quick ice of how we do it.

First ink is carded out of the screen, all tape is left on.

The screen is placed standing up in the booth. We spray the screen where ever ink is with citra paste. Using a scrub brush we scrub the ink and chemicals together, then using a hose we rinse the ink and chems off. Citra paste works great for this.

Then the tape is removed, its easier and cleaner to remove the tape at this point because its moist and comes right off.

Then emulsion remover is sprayed on and spread around with a separate brush. In two minutes the pressure washer blasts off the emulsions.

Next we apply liquid renuit where needed, scrubbed with another brush to help penetrate the mesh. We put the screens to the side that have dehazer on them to give the chems more time to work and start the process on the next batch of screens. Once enough time has passed we blast off the renuit and rinse thoroughly, screen is all done at this point.

All the time tho we are doing two screens at a time and always have screens with dehazer on them, keeping the flow going makes it go pretty fast.

[jvanick]

are you using a pressure washer?

Also...

Easiway Supra alone isn't enough to get all the ink out of the mesh.. you needan ink degradent and a degreaser.

Easiway's product is called '701' supposedly it works for both the degradent and degreaser step...

Here, we use a product from Xenon called Plastiwash before the dip tank... and if there's any remaining ink, Xenon FSIC... followed by Xenon Degreaser...

I can easily also do 15 screens an hour... probably more if I didn't get distracted.

[Doug S]

We first wet the screen, spray ink degradient on both sides let set for about 2 minutes then use a scrub pad to scrub both sides of the screen.  After that we use a pressure washer to finish getting the ink out.  When that's all said and done we dip them in the tank.  After you pull them out of the tank you use a pressure washer to spray both sides of the screen thoroughly to remove all of the emulsion.  Then use a separate brush and apply degreaser/stain remover to both sides of the screen.  We usually let that set in for a minute or 2 and thoroughly spray both sides of the screen to remove all of the degreaser.  That should remove the rest of the stain from the ink.

It shouldn't take that long to clean 10 screens.  If you are working at a reasonable pace you should have 10 screens completely reclaimed in approximately 30 minutes.

I haven't found a dip tank solution yet that will get rid of the ink and emulsion even though it may say ink and emulsion remover.'

[alan802]

We get the ink off completely before dipping.  We also use 701 to de-ink, spray it on, scrub with brush, power wash ink away then dip.  We can do 20 screens/hr not rushing things.  We take the tape off prior to doing anything though.  The Supra is ok, we've found better.

One thing that might be a problem is underexposure.  That usually causes headaches for reclaiming.

[Frog]

So yesterday I again dropped more money into this, well lets call it a hobby......for what seemed to be a great idea! A dip tank and chemicals!! I read several reviews, some great and some terrible. I bought the easiway tank and Supra one step stuff.

The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely..

It has been asked if you use a pressure washer, because by your description, you left out step four of Easiway's instructions
(btw) I am not a fan of the combo chems.

EasiStrip SUPRA One Step Ink Cleaner & Emulsion Remover Application:


Application for use in a dip tank:
Mix EasiStrip SUPRA at a ratio of up to 1:5 with water in a plastic tank.


Scrape excess ink from screen.
Place screen in dip tank.
Let soak in tank until the emulsion/film loosens from screen, usually just a couple of minutes.
High pressure rinse screen, then flood rinse.
If stubborn stains remain, apply an EasiWay Systems, Inc. approved stain remover, scrub and  rinse.


btw, you are not the first to bring up the idea of using a new screen each time. One additional plus would be that your screens would probably retain the little tension that they started with.
For most of us though, even without dip tanks, the additional $20 or so for each screen can not come close to the time/cost of cleaning and reclaiming even only five in an hour.

[jvanick]

something I missed in your original post too:



"The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely.."


you don't want the emulsion to come off in the tank... that'll KILL your dip tank chemical really fast.  you just want to soften it so it rinses out easily.

[mimosatexas]

I tested a bunch a few months ago when I setup my tank and I have hit 25 screens an hour on a few session doing the following:

Step 0:
Before reclaiming I always do the following to save time, mess, etc.  Card ink off on press when finishing a job.  Be sure to clear the ink from the open areas of your stencil BEFORE carding, and you should only have to card around the outside of your screen, and much of the residual ink will be over your tape.  I usually either don't flood after the final shirt, or grab a test shirt and do a hard print stroke to clear everything.  Take the screen off press and immediately detape and stack for cleaning.  I find that carding on press is easy since the screen is being held and you have one hand to hold the ink container over the screen and the other to card with.  Should take no time at all to detape assuming you are overlapping tape and using something that doesnt shred when you remove it.

Step 1: Put screens in dip tank.  I am also using Supra and love it.  I can fit four at a time under my hold down thingy with room to load new screens on one side and take soaked screens out the other.  During the first "batch" I do something else for a few minutes, but then it's go time.

Step 2: Remove one screen from the tank.  Set in washout booth with squeegee side away from you.  Pressure wash side to side starting from the top on the fan setting.  95% of the emulsion and residual ink should be completely gone after about 4 seconds.  If there are any thick drops of emulsion or ink that was stuck in taped registration marks that Supra didnt soften, I switch to a tighter spray and blast those out.  Total time for this step is maybe 20-30 seconds including moving the screens and reholstering the pressure washer when done.  No scrubbing.  Just a note, the Supra does not dissolve the ink, but will soften the hell out of it and a pressure washer does the rest.

Step 3: Spray bottle of 701, squirt 4-6 quick sprays on the screen.  VERY QUICKLY scrub left to right starting at the top, and then up and down.  Just disperse the 701, don't really scrub.  Total time, maybe 10-12 seconds.

Step 4: Flip screen around so squeegee side is facing you.  Repeat the 701 spray and quick left/right up/down scrub, but follow with a more vigorous circular scrubbing.  Total time, maybe 20 seconds.

Step 5: Flip screen back around, just do the vigorous circular scrub.  Total time, maybe 10 seconds.

Step 6: Pressure wash on fan setting, just back and forth and up and down QUICKLY.  Only goal is to remove the 701 as quickly as possible.  Total time maybe 10 seconds.

Step 7: Use a normal hose nozzle to rinse.  I pick the screen up and hold it up perpendicular to my chest, then spray from side to side from top to bottom on both sides of the screen without moving it, then flip it around and repeat.  This gets all the nooks and crannies quickly and over-rinses in a sense.  The final rinse should be on the shirt side of the screen and you should be able to see no bubbles from the 701 and the water should cleanly sheet off the screen.  Total time 30 seconds max.

Step 8: rack the clean screen for drying and repeat above, unloading a screen and loading another each time.

The whole process ideally takes under 2 minutes per screen, but there are occasionally annoying screens, or you have to refill a spray bottle or whatever.  I find I do the best job cleaning them if I take my time and average about 16-20 screens an hour, with lots of time for checking to make sure each step is done properly and doing the occasional stretch or rinsing off the back of the booth to prevent backsplash of ink/chems.

[Frog]

something I missed in your original post too:



"The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely.."


you don't want the emulsion to come off in the tank... that'll KILL your dip tank chemical really fast.  you just want to soften it so it rinses out easily.

That's one of the reasons that the instructions say "a couple of minutes"

[Northland]

I am actually thinking about buying a new screen for every job and chucking it in a pile for craigslist when I am done. That seems more efficient than spending 5 hours cleaning and prepping them.

Perhaps I am terribly mistaken here and need to understand how to do things correctly. Do you guys have any advice for me? I really hate cleaning all these damn screens. Its like I am a dishwasher in some seedy cafe somewhere....

As always thank you for your time and advice!

I see no mention of a pressure washer ??
It's the first step to getting screens cleaned quickly and thoroughly.

[IntegrityShirts]

I have a much looser process:

• Card ink out of screen
• Detape
• Dip (3-10minutes max - based on number of screens in the tank and last one out of the tank but you don't want the emulsion to come off in the tank)
• Spray out from shirt side
• Flip and spray squeegee side
• Spritz on 701 and scrub squeegee side
• Flip and scrub shirt side
• Spray out top to bottom shirt side including frame edges
• Flip and spray top to bottom sqeegee side including frame edges
• Using two hands grab the frame at 9 & 3 o'clock and lean somewhere to dry (don't grab the top of the screen because your hands won't be as clean as the screen and any residual funk will mix with the wet frame and drip/run down the mesh)

If the screen was a white screen sometimes I'll have to use my "dirty scrub pad" and hit it with 701 on both sides before the "clean scrub pad" 701 rinse in step 6.

[Appstro]

Yes I do have a pressure washer.
If I do it correctly as the instructions say to..I still have to scrub. It IS easier than before...less scrubbing, but I am still scrubbing.

I card off all ink
remove tape
wipe as much ink off as possible
toss in the tank for 20 minutes
remove from tank and pressure wash
At this point there are still areas with small amounts of ink AND speckles of OTHER screens ink on the screen
The image area still has light ink too.
Apply ink degradant and SCRUB
High pressure rinse
REPEAT
REPEAT
Apply dehazer
High pressure rinse
Blow out with compressed air and stack


Each one seems top take about 10-20 minutes


I just checked Mclogans and I can get a 225 mesh wood framed 19x22 screen for $15.99
Being so close to Mexico, I bet I can get them for half that if  I search a little

So lets just say $10.00 a screen...

Almost makes sense to me to toss them or sell them after the job for $1.00 each on craigslist. The time saved for me at this point would be huge. I value my own time at a minimum of $20.00 hour so just in labor last night I spent $100.00 cleaning screens. Then theres the chemicals which are very nasty and they are expensive. Then finally the MESS!

Hmm. I dont know.

[Northland]

Yes I do have a pressure washer.
If I do it correctly as the instructions say to..I still have to scrub. It IS easier than before...less scrubbing, but I am still scrubbing.

I card off all ink
remove tape
wipe as much ink off as possible
toss in the tank for 20 minutes
remove from tank and pressure wash
At this point there are still areas with small amounts of ink AND speckles of OTHER screens ink on the screen
The image area still has light ink too.
Apply ink degradant and SCRUB
High pressure rinse
REPEAT
REPEAT
Apply dehazer
High pressure rinse
Blow out with compressed air and stack


Each one seems top take about 10-20 minutes


I just checked Mclogans and I can get a 225 mesh wood framed 19x22 screen for $15.99
Being so close to Mexico, I bet I can get them for half that if  I search a little

So lets just say $10.00 a screen...

Almost makes sense to me to toss them or sell them after the job for $1.00 each on craigslist. The time saved for me at this point would be huge. I value my own time at a minimum of $20.00 hour so just in labor last night I spent $100.00 cleaning screens. Then theres the chemicals which are very nasty and they are expensive. Then finally the MESS!

Hmm. I dont know.

If you have:
- properly cured emulsion
- emulsion remover mixed to the correct ratio
- a pressure washer
You shouldn't even need to scrub.... it should literally wash right off.

Doing 20+ screens an hour is a cake walk and chems should run less than $.50/screen

.... plus... a wood screen and twenty minutes in a dip tank... not good

[Appstro]

I am using aluminum screens. I would only buy wood if I were only going to use it once.

It just seems to me that with the dip tank and a pressure washer I should be able to drop a screen and then 5 minutes later blast it and be done.

 I guess I am expecting too much.

[inkman996]

I am using aluminum screens. I would only buy wood if I were only going to use it once.

It just seems to me that with the dip tank and a pressure washer I should be able to drop a screen and then 5 minutes later blast it and be done.

 I guess I am expecting too much.

With a dip tank you should easily be able to do one screen in five minutes.

20 minutes in the tank is way way to long as mentioned. Look in to that for starters.

I also noticed in your step by step you added a second unnecessary step. After blasting the emulsion off you then use an ink degradent, scrub, blast then use a dehazer. Forget the ink degradent, once emulsion is off go right to dehazer and then your done.