DC/WB Print problem, what am I missing?

[TCT]

Hoping some people can help me out. We are printing a run with a LARGE solid basically rectangle, discharge. Then there are 3 other colors all WB. We are having the worst time with pallet adhesive not staying in the printed area. It is actually leaving a "oily" feel in the print area. We use the Tekbond water based adhesive, but actually switched to the high temp aerosol adhesive we used to use to see if that works any better and it doesn't!

This order has been throwing us so many curve balls, and at the beginning it seemed so basic!

[ZooCity]

We use TexTac, haven't bumped into this issue.  You could be over penetrating, driving too much water/ink onto the platen maybe.  Thin shirts?

[TCT]

Shirts are Tultex 0202's and Independent SS 3000. Over penetrating(nearly impossible for me not to make a joke here) is kinda the conclusion we came to. After we took a break and stepped away from the situation that is all that could make sense to us.

The main problem with that is that we ran 1200 it so this morning with out this issue!

[screenprintguy]

We have this happen too when doing large open areas and switch back to using spray adhesive. The discharge is making it's way through the shirt to the board surface and your glue eventually won't be useful. Sucks, but when we have it happen, we switch back to the spray glue. I don't waste time using any of the "industry specific" spray adhesives and just us 3m. Usually good after a spray for a few revolutions till the discharge has started working into it, then spray again. I guess this is where some of the bigger shops that do massive runs say they like to use the higher mesh counts to not have as much deep penetration, but I still believe in digging that discharge in deep for a better end resulting shirt. The 3m we use is the 3M Super77 spray. Works very well. If you "mist" the board, not a heavy spray, but a mist, you won't have any chunky pull off like some of the other spray adhesives do after a while. These big area prints also tend to need a flashing on the boards every so often. At least for us, that's what we do, keeps things from becoming messy.

[Screened Gear]

The only time I have this problem is when I am printing large areas of discharge with out running a flash. A screen with waterbase ink in it will feel moist. It works much like a swamp cooler/evap cooler. That cool moist screen will cool off your pallets. Waterbase tack is not sticky when it is cold. Running a flash will keep the pallets hot enough that the tack stays sticky and does not take on too much moisture.

The ink printing though the shirt has not effected my tack too much. I make sure not to have the flash on too long when doing waterbase. I only flash long enough to keep the boards warm. Maybe if you flash too long you are curing the waterbase ink on your boards then its blocking the stickyness of your waterbase tack. Your runs are longer than my waterbase runs to maybe even my approach will break down after a thousand shirts. I have prinited 500 shirts will about a 13 wide by 17 tall print that was about 75 % coverage with no problems.

Other suggestions would be to up your mesh count on larger heavy coverage screens. I print big open designs on 230 or higher on my auto.

[JBLUE]

Contrary to some popular beliefs you do not have to drive discharge through the shirt to the pallet. Anything more than a 50% penetration is just wasting ink. Printed correctly and cured properly it will look just as good as if it was double stroked through a 160. Some guys think that by adding more ink its going to fix a problem they are having when in fact it creates more headaches. Kind of like running a 110 mesh with plastisol. Fix the printing issues and the only need for a 110 is for specialty prints or filtering the washout booth.......  

We do not have any real noticeable tack issues even on large open area prints. Using a higher mesh is one reason. Like Jon said you can also keep the pallets warm by running a flash on a lower temp. It helps  to keep down the moisture.

Not to take a dig at the guy above but if you have to use 3M Super 77 to hold down your garments you are doing something seriously wrong. Not to mention potentially ruining your garments. That stuff does not wash out like spray tack.

[screenprintguy]

Not to take a dig at the guy above but if you have to use 3M Super 77 to hold down your garments you are doing something seriously wrong. Not to mention potentially ruining your garments. That stuff does not wash out like spray tack.

LOL, thanks for not taking a dig  . Let me re-explain. We only use the spray adhesive in problem areas like this one that Alex is hitting now. Some times running the flash isn't what we want in a given design so countering the issue we would use a spray adhesive. We've never had a "ruined" shirt from using 3m, but, I can see if someone puddled it on a board it, or an spray adhesive would cause an issue. I just put a shirt on from a run yesterday, no sticky, but then again, we only mist the board, by the time you put the shirt on it's dry and just tacky. So I guess it comes down to the application. Our main pallet adhesive that we use is Tekmar's TB 10. Any sprays we've used in the  past like sprayway ect, never seemed to last, so our back up was always 3m, but never puddle the spray, I actually prefer to stay away from spray as much as possible, but fleece and stuff like that some times there is no getting around it. The 3M idea was actually passed down to me from a production manager at a very gigantic shop in Tampa who prints for NFL, NHL, ect, so I figured if it's working for them, it must be a good back up. But like anything, if you over do it, I'm sure you can make a mess, the trick is the misting. Anyways, what works for one shop doesn't always work for another shop, but when a production guy from a shop running multi dozen autos passes on some info, I tend to want to try it  .

[tonypep]

3M 77 used to be a Nike requirement. Wait till you see the price

[ebscreen]

This is one of the reasons I wish autos came with three stations for loading/unloading, you could put a flash in between.
Immense help with printing off the seam, etc.

[ZooCity]

This is one of the reasons I wish autos came with three stations for loading/unloading, you could put a flash in between.
Immense help with printing off the seam, etc.

This is one more thing about the digotex, or whatever MHM is calling it now that they bought it, that is ingenious.  You could do that no problem.  Heck, you could set the platens to slowly pass under the flash upon arrival, so you wouldn't even need a wide flash for all over/off the seam, just a long enough one.  I don't know if they let that cat out of the bag yet or not but you might be able guess what else this ability for platens to "scan" beneath a station might be used for.

[Screened Gear]

Contrary to some popular beliefs you do not have to drive discharge through the shirt to the pallet. Anything more than a 50% penetration is just wasting ink. Printed correctly and cured properly it will look just as good as if it was double stroked through a 160. Some guys think that by adding more ink its going to fix a problem they are having when in fact it creates more headaches. Kind of like running a 110 mesh with plastisol. Fix the printing issues and the only need for a 110 is for specialty prints or filtering the washout booth.......  

Jason is right here. On a auto its almost impossible to print discharge with not enough pressure. The whole "drive the ink into the shirt" is not a problem on an auto.  A nice wet DC ink will penetrate the shirt easily on an auto with as low as 15 pounds of pressure with the right attack angle, mesh and squeegee. Like Jason I try to get 50% penetration. Not to save ink but to keep the shirt soft prewash. (I have clients that freak when they feel the chalky thick white). On some items it is impossible to not print through the shirt but you should try. What I do is check the shirts after the dryer and if my penetration is too much I back off of the pressure or stand the squeegee up more. This is really a job for the catcher but in my shop that is me also.

Spray adhesive is only for fleece and that stupid viscose crap in my shop.

[TCT]

Hey! Thanks for the advice guys!!!!! It was fixed with a flash towards the end.

Funny thing is the reason our first 1200 were fine is the flash WAS on. I replaced the loader while he had lunch, I took one look at the screen and thought "why the hell is that flash on?!" Then I turned it off:-[

[Screened Gear]

Hey! Thanks for the advice guys!!!!! It was fixed with a flash towards the end.

Funny thing is the reason our first 1200 were fine is the flash WAS on. I replaced the loader while he had lunch, I took one look at the screen and thought "why the hell is that flash on?!" Then I turned it off:-[

That's kind of funny.

You can run the flash really anywhere. I like to flash the shirts before they are printed. It helps drive moisture out of the shirts before the print. It also is easier to keep the area below the printed area dry and warm.  Just don't do a light flash between DC colors. The flash will thicken the ink a little and create build up issues on the next screen. All the flash is for is to keep the tack warm and dry. I'm glad you figured it out. When you said you printed 1200 shirts with no problem it didn't make sense to me.

[jsheridan]

This is one of the reasons I wish autos came with three stations for loading/unloading, you could put a flash in between.
Immense help with printing off the seam, etc.

Reminds me of the old challenger we modified back in the day.. took off the 2nd to last print station and made it the unload position. A flash was placed into the last head and a spray mister was placed between the stations. as the machine indexed tack was applied and then dried under the last head. That press would turn all day as they never had to stop to tack and it was always dry by the time the loader put a shirt on.

If anyone needs a super duper gripper tack.. look for RollTac.. it's a carpet adhesive and works wonders.

[jvanick]

Reminds me of the old challenger we modified back in the day.. took off the 2nd to last print station and made it the unload position. A flash was placed into the last head and a spray mister was placed between the stations. as the machine indexed tack was applied and then dried under the last head. That press would turn all day as they never had to stop to tack and it was always dry by the time the loader put a shirt on.

this right here is why I love screen printing.  We do things to equipment and use things in ways that the manufacturers probably didn't intend to get the job done.