Vegas Gold - Non Glitter Mix?

[mimosatexas]

I'm trying to match the color/tone of glitter Vegas Gold, but without the glitter.  I have tried multiple formulas for my mixing system and they are all more mustard yellow and less of the muted orange color of the Glitter version.  I also bought a quart of pre-mixed "vegas gold" that is waaaaaaaaay off, basically just a light tan instead.  Anyone have a dirty mix for this.  It doesn't have to be perfect and I am fine moving away from the mixing system if it makes it simpler, I am just looking for the right base ink and what to add.  I'm leaning toward Dolphin Orange as a base, with a touch of white to knock down saturation and black to muddle it up and maybe a bit of red and/or yellow to hit the right tone.  If someone already has a "dirty" house mix I can bastardize I would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks!

[Sbrem]

If it helps, we print a Vegas Gold for a major college, and it's PMS 4515. (That's what they insist on, so we mixed up a big ol' bucket)

Steve

[mimosatexas]

haha, just mixed this and it is exactly like the pre-mixed vegas gold I bought, which looks nothing like the glitter version of the ink.   So far the best result has been basically even parts orange, yellow, and white, with a bit of black, but the black is making it a lot more green than it should be :/

[mimosatexas]

okay after a bunch more testing the closest I have come is mixing PMS 457 but with double black and triple magenta, and it is still off.  Why is this color so hard to hit...?

[Frog]

Perhaps it's not Vegas Gold that's hard to match, but a non glittler glitter version, along with its limitations

[mimosatexas]

i understand there is an accepted pms color for "vegas gold", but i have two brands of vegas gold glitter and a vinyl swatch and looked around online, and they are all substantially darker and more yellow/orange than the accepted pms color of the same name.  I need to match what appears to be the industry standard ink color for "vegas gold" glitter ink, and whether it matches the accepted non glitter pms code is irrelevant.

Does anyone know why the actual underlying color is so different just because one is glitter and one isn't, yet they have the same "name".  I find it odd that there is vegas gold glitter ink and vegas gold glitter vinyl and vegas gold glitter fabric etc and they all look roughly the same (like this: http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Airbrush/Kustom-Nails/Pearlescent/Las-Vegas-Gold-Pearl/Las-Vegas-Gold-Pearl.gif), and then there is vegas gold that isnt glitter for ink, vinyl, fabric, etc and it looks entirely different (like this: http://www.thescreenmachineco.net/inks_&_process/screen_macine-CAD_cut_vinyl-color-Vegas_Gold-PMS_467.png).  I have tried matching my book a few times and custom mixed based on what seemed close, and I am still not hitting the same tone.  All of mine are still a little too brite compared to the glitter ink, but adding more black makes it more green instead of just more dull.  very frustrating...

[alan802]

I tried mixing a similar color a few months back for a customer that needed a college's color matched.  Browns, some greens and gold's aren't easy to mix, even for my printer who is the best I've ever seen at mixing pantone colors.  I got the color right in the bucket but when it was printed it never looked right.

[IntegrityShirts]

Vegas gold is a shade of tan in my opinion and according to the pantone values. I have ordered multiple gallons from QCM and it's always that same tan. Is the glitter clear or does it have the rainbow effect shimmer like crystalina?

I have also noticed the ink darkens after going through the dryer!

[Sbrem]

First things first, only glitter looks like glitter, so forget about that, just make a Vegas Gold. I would put in a plug for a mixing system, so you don't spend forever trying to get the mix. Usually, before we had a system, which was years ago now, we would start by finger painting on a white surface, like a white formica countertop. We wouldn't mix anything in a bucket until we got close to the color by finger painting. We use Union's Maxopaque matching system, which works pretty damn well. You may have a different situation though, trying to mix a color to please a customer, which can lead you to waste an awful lot of ink...

Steve

[mimosatexas]

I have a mixing system, but was striking out at hitting the right color using it.  Pantones are great, but they don't encompass every shade of color, and formulas aren't always dead on to the book.  Not to be rude in any way, but opinion and "just mix vegas gold" aren't really helpful to match the accepted glitter tone.  It is not rainbow like crystallina.  If you have glitter "vegas gold" or "old gold" or "bobcat gold" etc, they are all unique shades of gold which seem to be consistent across brands and products when labelled the same, and none of them look like "vegas gold" as a PMS color.  I'm kind of surprised this has never come up before I guess...

I understand that "glitter looks like glitter", but the shade difference between what seems to be the consensus for vegas gold glitter and what people commonly call vegas gold when referring to a pantone code are very different.  The glitter version is a whole lot closer to something like PMS 117 or 110 than 4515 (referenced above) or 467 (what google says is vegas gold).  The closest I have gotten so far is a bastardized mix for 467, but it still looks off...

I'll post photos in a moment.

[ebscreen]

Don't have anything to add except the few times we have tried to match a metallic/shimmer/glitter in a regular
ink color has always been a nightmare.

[mimosatexas]

Pics.  These were taken on my camera, but the lighting is pretty dead on.  All are double hit swatches so you are just seeing the ink after curing for all four squares.

To clarify, I tried mixing 117 as it seems to be the closest in the book, but it has orange in place of magenta, and adding or subtracting orange wasnt really changing it in the right way, while adjusting the magenta in the 467 mix got a lot closer, if that makes sense...

[Sbrem]

I have a mixing system, but was striking out at hitting the right color using it.  Pantones are great, but they don't encompass every shade of color, and formulas aren't always dead on to the book.  Not to be rude in any way, but opinion and "just mix vegas gold" aren't really helpful to match the accepted glitter tone.  It is not rainbow like crystallina.  If you have glitter "vegas gold" or "old gold" or "bobcat gold" etc, they are all unique shades of gold which seem to be consistent across brands and products when labelled the same, and none of them look like "vegas gold" as a PMS color.  I'm kind of surprised this has never come up before I guess...

I understand that "glitter looks like glitter", but the shade difference between what seems to be the consensus for vegas gold glitter and what people commonly call vegas gold when referring to a pantone code are very different.  The glitter version is a whole lot closer to something like PMS 117 or 110 than 4515 (referenced above) or 467 (what google says is vegas gold).  The closest I have gotten so far is a bastardized mix for 467, but it still looks off...

I'll post photos in a moment.

The reason I said "only glitter looks like glitter" is because it reflects hundreds of tones, depending on how the light hits it. How is one to choose which one to match, not to mention getting the customer to agree with your perception. It's like you're in a situation where you just can't win. It's the same as when we're asked to match embroidery thread, which again, tends to depend on how the light hits it. How many hours and how much wasted ink are you prepared to lose in the search? When I said "just mix..." I meant don't waste all of your time trying to reach a customer's demand. You may have to have the customer come in and make a choice; I don't believe for a minute that you can't mix colors, but that you may be letting your customer run your shop, or at least it's in your head to match that color, a special effect ink, with a flat color, and plainly, it's not that simple. And Google is not the end word on what a PMS color for a subjective name like Vegas Gold is. Boston College says it's 4515, but they aren't the law on that either, it's just the one they picked and will accept. I've had Vegas Gold number transfers from different vendors and they aren't exact either. It's like Fire Engine Red, or Mandarin Orange. To me, the photo of the glitter doesn't look even close to Vegas Gold, but that could be the photo. The Glitter adds texture, which means shadows, and will fluctuate wildly under the lighting conditions. Good luck with it though.

Steve

[mimosatexas]

I'm really only trying to get as close as possible and have it look "right".  The customer actually doesn't care, but I do

The Vegas gold to the right of the glitter is the "accepted" pantone code, mixed or pre-mixed, they essentially look the same, which is way off from the glitter.  The one I mixed below the glitter appears MUCH closer in every lighting I've looked at it so far, but is still a little "off".  I guess there isn't much of a point to continuing the thread as I have gotten close by continuing to test, but I still find it surprising that the non-glitter accepted shade for vegas gold is so completely different from the glitter versions I have in my shop and what I see online.  I was just hoping someone else had encountered this and had a custom mix or tips on how to get close.

[Nick Bane]

the 467 you posted looks real close and if the ink deposit was thinner i think it would be even closer still.  your color looks right it just needs a tiny bit of the black shirt to peek in behind it to darken it up a bit.  not sure what mesh you used for those prints(sorry if you said already) but id think thru a 200-230 or so would thin down your ink deposit and get that 467 real close to your glitter color.  thats just the next step i would take if it were me.