Author Topic: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh  (Read 6018 times)

Offline TCT

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« on: February 28, 2014, 11:04:26 AM »
What are people tightening their 310 Murakami smart mesh to? I just had 3 POP overnight >:( while drying! I try to leave ours at 30n. To high?
Alex

Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...

www.twincitytees.com


Offline Homer

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3208
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2014, 11:57:39 AM »
We shoot for 25 on everything, here's a chart.

http://murakamiscreen.com/smartmesh/mesh-chart-and-tension-guide/
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline ScreenPrinter123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 12:09:29 PM »
I hate 310s.  You blink and that stuff might pop.

Offline shurloc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2014, 04:55:47 PM »
Amen to that... Even taking the 310/30 to 25N is way too high... The 310/30 mesh has a range of 16-25 - with 25 being the max point. If you are going on to a new style M3-UL frame with the bowed corners, you need to keep it closer to the 16N mark and it will jump to 20-22 when you tighten up the bolts.
Online at: www.shurloc.com - Like Us On Facebook: shurloc.com/Facebook - How To Videos: shurloc.com/YouTube - Follow Us For Updates: shurloc.com/Twitter

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 06:02:38 PM »
310 is crazy delicate.  It's not really the tension but just the 30µ threads being what they are at that lower TPI.  The comparison is similar to the 180/48 v. 135/48, same thread size but take away 45 thread per inch and the threads don't have enough support or something.  The 180 is very durable but 135s pop all the time and can't take the same tension, apparently more knuckles = more strength, it must be a strength in numbers kind of thing.

I love the 310 for doing sim process work with wb/dc, it's incredible what it can hold and still get very good penetration....but also can't seem to keep it around long enough in the shop so we run 330/30. 

About 24 n/cm for both, 22 if 24 is causing failure.  22 n/cm is the line in my opinion, if you go below a whole host of issues pop up regarding low tension.

Offline shurloc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2014, 06:09:33 PM »
Why isn't there a "Like" button on here... 22N-24N is a great range, just remember not to keep it pinned at 24N every time you reclaim or it just won't last very long...
Online at: www.shurloc.com - Like Us On Facebook: shurloc.com/Facebook - How To Videos: shurloc.com/YouTube - Follow Us For Updates: shurloc.com/Twitter

Offline abchung

  • !!!
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2014, 08:22:42 PM »
310 is crazy delicate.  It's not really the tension but just the 30µ threads being what they are at that lower TPI.  The comparison is similar to the 180/48 v. 135/48, same thread size but take away 45 thread per inch and the threads don't have enough support or something.  The 180 is very durable but 135s pop all the time and can't take the same tension, apparently more knuckles = more strength, it must be a strength in numbers kind of thing.

I love the 310 for doing sim process work with wb/dc, it's incredible what it can hold and still get very good penetration....but also can't seem to keep it around long enough in the shop so we run 330/30. 

About 24 n/cm for both, 22 if 24 is causing failure.  22 n/cm is the line in my opinion, if you go below a whole host of issues pop up regarding low tension.

Stress = Force/Area
More cross-sectional area can handle more stress. While more knuckles might cause more frictional stress, which might weaken the mess.

Offline Rockers

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2074
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2014, 09:33:33 PM »
All this makes me reconsider if I really want to try out the NBC 315/27. A whopping 45% open area but probably too easy to break.

Offline JBLUE

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 11:22:59 AM »
Ours sit right around 24. Anything more for the 310 and your asking for trouble if the frames are not perfect. After that your at the mercy of the knuckleheads banging them around. I just got 10 Newman Roller mesh panels to try out. So we will see how those last.
www.inkwerksspd.com

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid...... Ben Franklin

Offline sben763

  • Verified/Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 11:31:33 AM »
The newman 300 panels aren't very durable. But 272 I keep at 40N all the time without issue.  The do have 2 300 thread sizes but Ryonet couldn't advise which they had supplied me. I hope it was the thin thread.  I am ordering a small amount of the thicker thread 300 for testing and it shows 36N for max and 28N for the starting tension before work hardening the mesh.

Offline JBLUE

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2036
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2014, 03:02:57 PM »
The newman 300 panels aren't very durable. But 272 I keep at 40N all the time without issue.  The do have 2 300 thread sizes but Ryonet couldn't advise which they had supplied me. I hope it was the thin thread.  I am ordering a small amount of the thicker thread 300 for testing and it shows 36N for max and 28N for the starting tension before work hardening the mesh.

I am trying out the 272's right now so if they are holding well at 40 thats good news. I will probably keep them in the 32 range for work hardened tensions.
www.inkwerksspd.com

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid...... Ben Franklin

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 08:59:58 PM »
All this makes me reconsider if I really want to try out the NBC 315/27. A whopping 45% open area but probably too easy to break.

Unless NBC has some kind of magic voodoo going on with thread strength I would expect a very delicate screen.  Sounds amazing though.

On Newman Roller Mesh, maybe load by hand v. panels.  When we ran Roller Mesh we ran it high tension (panels were not available then) and had just about zero issues with durability, it's tough mesh.  With panels the builder of them is guessing at what tension you are running.

Offline abchung

  • !!!
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 12:51:53 AM »
The main problem in stretching 305/30 mesh (Uni-rich) on Newmans is the joints where the tube meets the hexagon. Once I get pass that, I can stretch it to 20~22 Newtons. I have popped so much of these mesh, I am going back to 305/34 (Saati) @ 28~30N for durability and handling.

Can we use alloy thread for garment printing?
Nittoku (a.k.a Murakami) makes alloy mesh that can withstand high tensions with 60% open area for electronic gadgets.
http://www.nt-jp.com/en/products/screen/micromesh.html




Offline StuJohnston

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2014, 01:46:35 AM »
All this makes me reconsider if I really want to try out the NBC 315/27. A whopping 45% open area but probably too easy to break.

Unless NBC has some kind of magic voodoo going on with thread strength I would expect a very delicate screen.  Sounds amazing though.

On Newman Roller Mesh, maybe load by hand v. panels.  When we ran Roller Mesh we ran it high tension (panels were not available then) and had just about zero issues with durability, it's tough mesh.  With panels the builder of them is guessing at what tension you are running.

Regarding the last part, It's not hard to discuss this sort of thing with a company like Shurloc. I needed some panels for large format diamond chase frames and we discussed what I needed out of them, he sent me the first one and I told him what I would like to change, then I got the rest with the changes I requested. Next time I order, it will probably be like the original 'guess' lol.

Offline ABuffington

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
Re: 310 Murakami Smart Mesh
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 04:26:44 PM »
Hello Guys,

Al from Murakami here.  Many of you get it here, you need lower tension for S mesh to prevent it from breaking.  For those on the high tension band wagon, stick with our t or HD thread that is thicker.  Thinner threads require lower tension, but they also allow for low, low squeegee pressure.  This helps dot control on plastisol baseplates.
20 Newtons is a good workable tension for this mesh.  As mentioned in a previous post, check out the mesh guidelines for tension.  Most of you do not have a high end stretcher needed to hit the upper marks.  The sharp Newman corners at the end of the roller bar don't help either, file and polish them.  Select a tension in the middle of the mesh tension guidelines.  Each mesh count has a different tension level due to the threads per inch and the diameter of the thread. 

I too would not have 310S as my first choice in those higher mesh counts.  I like a 330S since it has 20 more threads.  If this is overprint colors the 350S is the go to mesh for sim process halftones and stochasitic. 

Some common mesh combos:  Murakami 225S, 180S, 150S, Base Plate,  350S overprints.
The base meshes mentioned here can all hold 45 and 55 lpi halftones, angles are on my site as well as tension guide.  www.murakamiscreen.com  225S is needed for 65 and 85 line.

Workers generally need retraining on handling S mesh.  No tools ever placed on the screen during setup.  (A mesh thread of 30 microns is incredibly thin, pull one off of any mesh, they snap instantly, its the mesh knuckles that give this mesh strength (strength in numbers).  So avoid tools placed on screens that can nick a thread which will pop later during drying after reclaim since mesh does tighten up a bit, or if you place in the sun realize that the frame can be expanding slightly.  If you are at or above top recommended tensions these work issues will pop your mesh.

Avoid scratchy pads that can nick the threads the same way as tools.  Metal spatulas with sharp corners, putty knives can all fray a thread or nick it.

One final area.  Murakami Nittoku Mesh reaches tension much faster than competitor's mesh, and it also holds onto tension better than any mesh.  Less labor on Newmans and many more jobs can be printed at optimum tension levels, which for me range from 17-35 newtons depending on the mesh count and thread.

So why use S threads?
1. Softest hand base plate you will ever print with Plastisol. 
ISS Show 2011 Murakami Screen 150 S Mesh Screen Printing Video
  Watch me print the base plate.  I swear all I do is touch the pallet with the squeegee and lean back.  On an auto this would equate to very little squeegee pressure and faster stroke when the ink is warm.
2. If you are a volume contract printer you will save a ton of white base plate ink over the year.  I consult with a 40 auto shop that just saved 30% of their white ink cost since they are printing less ink per print vs a 110 and also able to print halftones whereas a 110 cannot.
3. Waterbase Discharge - Less or dry in of ink.  More open area allows it to clean itself and open up better than t mesh of a similar count. 
4. Waterbase Discharge - Better color.  More open area allows the fabric to be saturated with ink.  Discharge prints stay consistent since the open area stays open allowing correct deposit of ink.  Waterbase likewise is able to print more ink, more saturated color and less shirt fabric showing.   Also a better wash color when the shirt is washed.

All of our show shirts, the guitars (yeah), drums etc are printed with 225S with 350S on stochaistic or halftone.  Best prints I have seen I in 40 years, yeah before automatics is when I started!!!

Al
Alan Buffington
Murakami Screen USA  - Technical Support and Sales
www.murakamiscreen.com