Author Topic: CCI Waterbase White  (Read 5902 times)

Offline TCT

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 09:47:29 PM »
check with TechSupport. they are carrying Permaset. I have done a little with it but so far I really like it. they have a first down white and a super cover white.

Permaset only comes in a waterbase  right? Do they offer discharge or a HSA base?
Alex

Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...

www.twincitytees.com


Offline Ryan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 447
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 10:06:54 PM »
I tried mixing some zfs into the permaset today and it totally turned it to water. I used magnas agent. Have no idea if you really should keep same brands together or not so not sure. Permaset is very much like sericol. Same formulas as them. Whoever here using sericol, how do you do discharge? Wonder if using the same "items" would work with permaset

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


Offline TCT

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 10:39:37 PM »
I tried mixing some zfs into the permaset today and it totally turned it to water. I used magnas agent. Have no idea if you really should keep same brands together or not so not sure. Permaset is very much like sericol. Same formulas as them. Whoever here using sericol, how do you do discharge? Wonder if using the same "items" would work with permaset

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


Here is what we used for activator with Sericol when we tested it out-
http://www.atlasscreensupply.net/index.php?main_page=document_product_info&cPath=1_232_233&products_id=1207&zenid=ca9ca0a960b1df220da578e78a0f35d0
Alex

Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...

www.twincitytees.com

Offline Evo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 951
  • Anything is possible.
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 10:44:39 PM »
I tried mixing some zfs into the permaset today and it totally turned it to water. I used magnas agent. Have no idea if you really should keep same brands together or not so not sure. Permaset is very much like sericol. Same formulas as them. Whoever here using sericol, how do you do discharge? Wonder if using the same "items" would work with permaset

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Wait, when did Permaset start making discharge inks?

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

Offline TCT

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 10:54:05 PM »
I tried mixing some zfs into the permaset today and it totally turned it to water. I used magnas agent. Have no idea if you really should keep same brands together or not so not sure. Permaset is very much like sericol. Same formulas as them. Whoever here using sericol, how do you do discharge? Wonder if using the same "items" would work with permaset

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Wait, when did Permaset start making discharge inks?

I think Ryan was saying their WB inks didn't work as discharge.
Alex

Hopefully I'll never have to grow up and get a real job...

www.twincitytees.com

Offline Ryan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 447
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 11:12:08 PM »
Correct, they don't discharge or aren't dischargeable.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2014, 04:44:07 PM »
Of course a WB ink does not work as discharge.  Sericol's RFU DC inks are in no way comparable to an HSA which is what permaset sounds like.  Completely different systems with completely different chemistry and intended print techniques as well as finishes.

....although this made me think...how rad would a DC/HSA hybrid be?  Like plasticharge but all WB.  Man, that would rule.  Probably not chemically possible though. 

Offline Ryan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 447
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 06:59:45 PM »
See how much I know. After owning my business for 16 years, I printed my first water base job less than a month ago and my first discharge job maybe 2 months ago. I just assumed water base ink could be used for discharge. Silly me.....I have a lot to learn I guess. At least I know now

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


Offline noortrd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2014, 02:06:19 AM »
Discharge work as waterbase ink but not for dark fabrics.

Offline Prof_Yaffel

  • Verified/Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 14
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2014, 11:15:51 AM »
I'm looking forward to comparing this to other HSA high opacity whites and even more looking forward to having a complete HSA mixing system that we can overprint colors onto an HSA white base.

You can add pigment to the white itself and then overprint...works really well. Yes you do have to add a lot of pigment to overcome the white but the finished result is very stretchy with no cracking.

IM confused on this. You add lets say red pigment to the white then over print it with red WB ink. So you have 2 screens to print red. If you have a 2 color job you have 4 screens? I may have missed something here.

Not 2 red screens. You print white first , flash , then print a white that has had red added to it. Pigment load will depend on whose pigments you are using.

Offline ZooCity

  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4914
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2014, 12:51:05 PM »
Hey Ryan, it can be confusing with the options we have nowadays.

Systems are either:
  • Ready for use.  All inks in the system are balanced and can print out of the bucket or be mixed to various other colors. Simplest, most foolproof.
  • Pigment Concentrate + Base.  Non-balanced pigment dispersions are added to a carrier base.  Complex, most versatile.

And the three main types of WB ink are:
  • Standard WB.  Not opaque, works on lights or perhaps over a discharge base.
  • Discharge. Activated with either ZFS or a NF activator (each have different bases), opaque on discharging garments.
  • HSA or High Solids Acrylic. Completely different animal, opaque, kind of like plastisol and water based had a kid.

Standard WB and DC inks often share pigment sets in a PC system but RFU WB or DC is not interchangeable- you've seen what happens trying to activate a not intended for discharge base.  Running an unactivated discharge ink as standard WB is possible and some keep only discharge base and use it for both DC and WB but I don't recommend doing this as most DC inks do not contain adequate binder to run unactivated. Standard WB and DC is not typically flashed on press.

HSA stands alone and should only be used with other HSA inks and modifiers.  Inks are printed in a similar (but not exactly the same) way to plastisol with flashes, etc.  A handful of the PC systems do have HSA bases that can be tinted with the same PCs used for WB and DC ink however. 

A clear or mix of clear/white DC ink can be used as an underbase with any ink- HSA, WB or plasti -on top with different results from each.

It does seem very confusing just writing this out, many options and many differences between each brand.  Hope that is helpful in a small way.

Offline Matsui (PVC Free Inks)

  • Verified/Junior
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • "Leaders in PVC Free Inks"
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2014, 02:06:28 AM »
Has anyone heard or used Matsui's 301W CL? 

It works great as an under base white.  If you are printing on 50/50 or 100% poly we also have an under coat blocker to prevent sublimation/migration with most fabrics.  Testing is highly recommended due to all the weird fabrics and dying process in existence.
Jesse Martinez
Matsui International Company, Inc.
www.matsui-color.com

Offline Homer

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3200
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2014, 10:46:26 AM »
stumbled upon these little gems if anyone needs things spelled out like I do..sometimes it gets a bit confusing with all wb, dc, hsa stuff...


http://www.sourceoneonline.com/product.asp?categoryID=4&sectionID=25&subSectionID=293&subSection2ID=85&catID=85&catTab=sub_section2&attrIDs=0
...keep doing what you're doing, you'll only get what you've got...

Offline Underbase37

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 790
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2014, 01:19:38 PM »
Thanks, always find having data sheets on file helps in keeping me from getting lazy.

Murphy37


Offline ebscreen

  • !!!
  • Gonzo Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4277
Re: CCI Waterbase White
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2014, 03:59:10 PM »
Finally got around to testing the CCI Pure White.

Weird stuff. If I had to sum it up I'd say it's right smack dab between waterbase and plastisol.
Mostly in terms of how it prints, but also the way it feels in the bucket and the way it smells.
Weird stuff.


We had a discharge white run that had 50 or so Royal shirts thrown in, so I thought I'd try it out on these.
(Royal doesn't discharge)

180 mesh (typically would have gone higher for just discharge) it took a pretty hard flood and two strokes
to clear the screen. I could see if we fooled with it a bit and/or used a lower mesh clearing in one hit no problem.

Squeegee was at 10 degrees from straight up and down, so again a little lower than plastisol, a little higher than waterbase.

Flashes like a dream, virtually no after flash tack immediately after flashing. Super fast too.
We just went around twice as this was the first venture with the stuff. pp/f/pp. Super opaque
and the fiber matte down is awesome.

In the dryer like waterbase, nice and slow. The finished hand is super soft, kind of velvety.

Straight water will work for cleanup, but in dried areas a little degradent gets it moving. Again, right in between
plastisol and waterbase.

So yeah, weird stuff. If they can get top colors and w/o/w figured out (Just heard that one of our suppliers is going to be the
sole distributor for Virus on the west coast...) plastisol may be on the way out.