THEY'RE HERE...S Thread Statics

[alan802]

I know some shops have them already but my local guy is going to stock these screens and see how it goes.  I'm heading over there in a bit to pick up a few of each mesh count.  I'll be documenting the tensions throughout their lifespan, well, at least until work hardened.  I'll put the results up here for everyone to see and then be able to decide whether or not these statics are worth the money.  I hope they are high quality and maintain a usable tension level, if they don't, we'll know pretty quickly.  We are a roller frame shop that is about 75% S/Thin thread and 25% standard mesh counts in production but I want to test these frames for those who want a great screen without the price of rollers and bolt mesh.  If they hold up like I think they should, this could allow a lot of shops to benefit from thin thread mesh.  Stay tuned ladies.

[IntegrityShirts]

Keep me in the loop. My supplier Axiom America sells statics with the S-mesh and also offer re-meshing. I know they don't do any of it in-house (not sure if Murakami themselves do it stateside somewhere) because they're in the embroidery game and only offer a little screen printing stuff and not much/if any knowledge of the products.

I have stacks on stacks of statics I could use decent mesh in if the tension holds up on the s-threads (I'm skeptical).

They'd have to over-tension them by at least 5 newtons to get them to settle in the mid 20's for 150/48 in my opinion

[TCT]

We have been stretching S-mesh on statics for a while now, they do work nice. So I had a thought about getting more tension out of them. Since the rollers seem to stretch easier, I was thinking of getting a oversized roller(one a 23x31 static could fit INSIDE of) stretching the mesh nice and tight and then putting a piece of steal on the screen like described in the M&R book from back in the day to help relax the mesh. Then after that is done, re tighten the roller to the max and press a static up from under the roller, adhere the mesh to the static and cut the excess away....

Make sense? Stupid? Am I missing the point all together? The voices in my head don't usually critique my ideas What do you guys think?

[ScreenFoo]

If you were me, you'd run, reclaim, and retension it a few times before you glue it on a static...   (hint hint )

[tonypep]

That used to be a problem for Newman when they first came out. If you wanted one single large frame they pretty much knew you were using it as a stretching device for statics and they charged accordingly. Not really an issue these days. We have a stretching table and some ginormous Newmans and a few thousand static frames and use the weight/tension method described above. Sold all the auto Newman frames.

[abchung]

We have been stretching S-mesh on statics for a while now, they do work nice. So I had a thought about getting more tension out of them. Since the rollers seem to stretch easier, I was thinking of getting a oversized roller(one a 23x31 static could fit INSIDE of) stretching the mesh nice and tight and then putting a piece of steal on the screen like described in the M&R book from back in the day to help relax the mesh. Then after that is done, re tighten the roller to the max and press a static up from under the roller, adhere the mesh to the static and cut the excess away....

Make sense? Stupid? Am I missing the point all together? The voices in my head don't usually critique my ideas What do you guys think?

I have not tried it with s-mesh yet. But I run the roller frames through several print cycles with retention, then use the mesh on smaller static frames. It is quite time consuming but we are a manual shop and the employee prefer lighter screens.

[inkman996]

We have been stretching S-mesh on statics for a while now, they do work nice. So I had a thought about getting more tension out of them. Since the rollers seem to stretch easier, I was thinking of getting a oversized roller(one a 23x31 static could fit INSIDE of) stretching the mesh nice and tight and then putting a piece of steal on the screen like described in the M&R book from back in the day to help relax the mesh. Then after that is done, re tighten the roller to the max and press a static up from under the roller, adhere the mesh to the static and cut the excess away....

Make sense? Stupid? Am I missing the point all together? The voices in my head don't usually critique my ideas What do you guys think?

The weight is in the middle is a good practice, its a way to work harden the mesh before glueing. I was always taught to pulse the mesh up and add weights for a period of time, then remove the weights tension up to your desired tension add a couple more and glue. My local guy does it this way and my statics are mid 20s work hardened.

[ZooCity]

I've purchased S-mesh statics in the past but, no matter how adamant I was, supplier wouldn't stretch them properly.  I offered to pay extra, whatever it takes to get them to stage tension it according to Murakami's recommendations, then over tension slightly before gluing but no dice.  So the one we have left for printing flags and OS stuff is pretty weak sauce on the tension and I know it could be better.  Interested to hear how it goes Al even though we're pretty dug in on our M3s/pin lock setup.

TCT, as Tony confirmed, yes this is supposed to be one of the better methods.  Make sure the steel plate is super smooth.  If you have the time, an overnight sit at full tension with a bump up in the morn will really stabilize this mesh.  Colin told me of some using 5k psi or higher press washers to "instantly" work harden screens, sounds like there is an art to that though.  I really think just giving it enough time during stage tensioning and truly doing it right- releasing all tension after each stage -wins most of the battle.  I know that might not be super production friendly but it's really worth it.

[tonypep]

 With the advent of retens, the craft of stretching statics has become rather stale. There are forgotten techniques that allowed the printer to produce a quality screen; using the raw materials that he/she preferred. Since most static users rely on outside services to stretch/restretch the printer is now at their mercy. You get what you get. Can't share all the nuances but we have some proprietary methods.
Also if you're in the Southeast/ATL my friend Brannon has got a pretty mean re-stretching op.

[ZooCity]

Makes sense.  I'm actually in Montana so just the shipping back and forth to a supplier alone for restretch is a big part of why we went with rollers.  With more space I would put in a stretch/glue setup but would want to then become a supplier in the area to justify taking up that mush floor space/investment for screen stretching.

[ScreenFoo]

I stretch and glue at night or over the weekend.  No extra room here.

[inkman996]

PLacing weights on the mesh for a period of time simulates what the squeegee does to the mesh. Its probably the closest you can get to work hardening a screen with out actually printing with it. Screens from the mass suppliers can have tension drops of 10 and higher, that right there is a tell tale sign they are simply rolling out the mesh and glueing immediately. My guys screens drop a few newtons and that is it. In fact I know I can get higher tensions out of him but he refuses to go higher than he is comfortable with. Either way i have awesome statics that cvan print just as well as any other screen types, the room for improvement now is for me to get some smart mesh or S mesh and have him stretch some up. That is of course if Alan sees the benefit.

[tonypep]

Couple of other techniques can improve the process. Think about it. What else besides off contact and pressure causes loss of tension?

[inkman996]

Couple of other techniques can improve the process. Think about it. What else besides off contact and pressure causes loss of tension?

Heat water chemicals? Solar equinox?

[alan802]

Just got back with some 150, 180 and 135.  The 135's are at 21 and 22 newtons and every other mesh count I tested came in at 22 newtons.  He has 135, 150, 180, 225 and 300 in stock and I put the meter on multiple screens of all the mesh counts and they were all consistent.  The quality of the frame, glue, flatness, etc are all as good as the Xenon screens that he also carries.  All of the Xenon screens I've ever seen at his shop were top notch quality wise but I'm not sure what others around the country are getting but these Murakami screens are as good as it gets.  There's not any streaks of glue on the frames, no metal poking out from anywhere, the frames are flat, flat, and flat.  I hoped they'd be higher in the initial tension levels but if they stay around 20-22 after a few uses then we've got something good here.  If they fall to 15, then consider them only marginally better than standard thread mesh in that you'll still have a larger percentage of open area with like mesh counts.

I'll have these taped and coated by the end of the day and by tomorrow afternoon we should have some numbers for after printing.