THEY'RE HERE...S Thread Statics

[alan802]

Im using our slow time to edumacate myself and I have this question concerning s-mesh static's and retensionable frames that are running high tension.

Is the end results close when using either? A lower tension s-mesh static that has more open area versus a standard mesh retensionable running higher tension?

Having run standard mesh with high tension for a few years and just a little experience with S thread statics, I'd say no, not as close as you'd think. % open area with standard mesh and high tension isn't comparable to S thread at average tension.  High tension standard mesh takes more maintenance and then your press better be calibrated very tightly or you'll have issues.  If you have those roller frames you might as well put S thread in them or if you can find a good deal on used rollers.  If you're thinking about investing in roller frames you should, in my opinion, fill them with the best mesh you can and for textile printing, it's S thread at the top and then all the rest.

[Underbase37]

On the opposite side of the fence I can't wait till some of my screens lose tension.

I have 50-100 "work softened" statics that I'd be willing to let go at a very reasonable price.   

No doubt, I have like 200 up stairs I will sell at a crazy good price, if anybody wants them PM me.

We take very good care of our screens. So, not much ink on them but some old stains from a lot of use.

Murphy37

[sqslabs]

How much tension drop did you wind up having? (Not including those ones the mesh came unglued - I think that was you anyway.)

The work softened post wasn't in regards to s-mesh statics, sorry for the mixup. 

All of my s-mesh statics settled at 20N (which is plenty for s-thread), and I still use them daily.  If I remember correctly, they work hardened at 2-3N less than what they arrived at.  Really not much of a drop at all.

[rmonks]

I want to throw this out here. I started using S-mesh about a year ago. I use roller frames and have put about 30 screens with various mesh size in them 110S, 120, 135, 150, the one thing I have noticed and don't know if it something I am doing or not. But I have had 5 of the 30 rip, I have them taped and don't recall bumping them. Tension is not the problem. I was just wondering if I may have got some mesh that had been on the shelf a long time and was weak. Compared to my regular mesh it seems like I have a high mortality rate going on. Other that that I agree with what Alan and others say about them, they are a step up in quality.

[bulldog]

How much tension drop did you wind up having? (Not including those ones the mesh came unglued - I think that was you anyway.)

The work softened post wasn't in regards to s-mesh statics, sorry for the mixup. 

All of my s-mesh statics settled at 20N (which is plenty for s-thread), and I still use them daily.  If I remember correctly, they work hardened at 2-3N less than what they arrived at.  Really not much of a drop at all.

Gotcha! That's not bad then.

[tonypep]

On the opposite side of the fence I can't wait till some of my screens lose tension.

I have 50-100 "work softened" statics that I'd be willing to let go at a very reasonable price.   

If they are rigid 36"x40" I'll take them!

[inkman996]

Me and the owner visited a shop last week in Manchester CT to check out their Douthitt machines. I cannot name the business but Rich would know who they are since they have many M&R presses including a new CHIII that was awesome to see in person.

Anyways this shop is huge and in league with places like New Buffalo, it blew my mind seeing this operation to say the least. And the best part is they have ZERO customers all they print is for their own line. A hugely successful line that many here would know.

Back to point I talked a ton with their head screen guy and a lot about S Mesh. He loves the S mesh but found the reject rate to high to be practical on anything above 150's. So they use more durable mesh on higher counts. This place goes through hundreds of screens a day and has a roller table the size of my office. He was a very smart guy that knew his chit, he showed me the box of tools collecting dust that he gave up on years ago. all those crazy tools to figure out OEM, film density, etc etc. What he came to understand being high production you need to find what works and stick with it, he reduced mesh counts down to a more managable inventory, tensions everything to identical numbers, uses the same emulsion on everything no matter what, uses the same inks, same chemistry on and on. He told me once this all happened everything ran smoother, money saved on not chasing perfection and things are far easier to track. Really does make sense. Seeing the work coming off their presses proved it as well.

[Underbase37]

Same here on the s-statics tension settling @ 20n-21n.

And the old ones for sale are not "S" mesh.....23x31

Murphy37

[Screen Dan]

Inkman.  Thank you so much for the kind words.  I have been lurking around this board for a looong time.  Never thought I'd find myself quoted here.

I just want to clarify that we find the S mesh more delicate than T and HD meshes for obvious reasons.  It is.  Dealing with the volume of screens that we do it's hard enough for my guys in the screen department to treat the screens carefully 100% of the time...and then there are the guys in the shop.  Unfortunately practicality won out over technical superiority.  But either way I would not say any of that mesh was defective.  The pops and rips are all easily traceable back to people.

S-mesh is simply brilliant stuff.  Since 150-S  makes the best base plate I've ever used I would be foolish to not use it.  Each setup only needs one base plate, occasionally we use it for X-Glue or Liquid Silver, etc, so it's pretty easy to keep those screens in stock.  However since the 225 mesh makes up the vast majority of my ~600 screen inventory it was an uphill battle...up a greased hill...in a blizzard to keep the empty frame pile at a reasonable level.  And that's before even worrying about the massive expense that pile represents.

It did break my heart to go back to 55lpi after seeing what 60lpi looked like.  But for the vast majority of our designs the only people that would notice would be myself and the other veteran-printer-turned-manager.

Those kids in the shop have no idea how spoiled they are.  They will never know the joy of attempting to squeeze Pop White through a 160/68 at 5am in late January.  The last 160 that was floating around (for years) was used for a solid-fill white plate.  5 minutes on press until that operator was at my desk telling me how he had a screen that "didn't work."

The more I can do in the screen room to make jobs easier to set up and easier to replicate while lowering the barrier to entry for rookie printers the better.  Reduce all the variables.  Right?

Tomorrow is an R&D day...my favorite day of the week.

[GaryG]

Friday R&D- a man after my own heart.

[ScreenFoo]

I'm jealous, I have to stay over the weekend to get any of that done.   

Kudos Dan, sounds like you know your stuff, and more importantly, your people.
I still struggle with the latter.

[inkman996]

Speaking of liquid silver. We ran a job yesterday using Liquid Silver through a 135S and damn if it was to much. The amount it laid down was amazing and I had to make some changes on press to keep it from being to much ink, S mesh is amazing stuff.

Glad to see you post Dan you have an amazing shop that would make many here zealous for sure, all the right tools for sure. Those all over rollers were massive!

[cleveprint]

quick question, where is everyone buying the S tread statics at? anyone in the midwest? just for shipping purposes id like to get them from somewhere close. i want to try a few of these puppies in our shop. im sick of just reading about them

[sqslabs]

quick question, where is everyone buying the S tread statics at? anyone in the midwest? just for shipping purposes id like to get them from somewhere close. i want to try a few of these puppies in our shop. im sick of just reading about them

We get ours from River City Graphic Supply in Texas.  It's not very close to us, but they offer free shipping over $100.

[Prosperi-Tees]

+2 for River City. Kevin runs a great operation there.