THEY'RE HERE...S Thread Statics

[Mr Tees!!]

...just got a MonsterMax here too. The very ends are razor-sharp, which is why they tell you to make sure the endcaps are higher than the coating edge. I saw that nightmare coming, so I filed off the very tip of the end and sanded it smooth. Works great now. I like how deep it is, seems to hold a quart or more at a time. bothe edges are identical too, so if you fatally nick one side, you can flip it around and get the same results.

http://www.basicsilkscreensupplies.com/products.html

...these folks make a few crafty items, actually. I tried the winged flood bar but didn't care for it, the wings can potentially tilt downward for "fast and easy on-press mesh removal"  . Never happened, but its just seemed bound to at some point. We removed 'em and use as a standard flood bar.

[abchung]

I put my thin thread mesh through several cycles on Newman frames then glue them on rigid frames. (59,90,and 305)

I am wondering how many cycles does it take for a mesh to work harden?

Also I read somewhere online about reversing the print stroke. If we do that, we will reduce the work harden process. Is this true?

[starchild]

S mesh is a low elongation mesh- It does not have to use a lot of "elastic stretching" to get to the required tension.. Loss of tension will be more likely due to improper installation causing it not to be squared while introducing isolated tension in some areas. Also going pass recommended tension levels would cause necking in some of the threads. Also bringing low elongation mesh up to tension rapidly will cause a shock??  to the threads.. But once stretched correctly they're good to go.

There's nothing wrong with static frames paired with LE mesh..

Stretching mesh correctly is more than just tension so I wonder how involved does a static screen seller get when it comes to getting it right? (Right out the door..) A lot of people look down on statics- that they loose tension too quickly or they arrive with low tension.. It's not the statics to blame but the time and procedure it takes to build a stable screen-along with how stretchy the mesh is.. Time is money so the statics get the blame..

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[ABuffington]

I run across these threads and would like to help anyone who would like to try S mesh.

Here are some notes on S mesh:
1. Murakami has a stretch service on the West Coast and in North Carolina.  The stretcher we use is not available to the public.  Murakami manufacurers it's own stretcher to stretch for the electronic and graphics industry.  We use this stretcher here to obtain excellent static stretch screens. The difference? Threads that are oriented square to the frame.  Bar stretchers and Newmans are not as accurate on mesh capture.  Also a well stretched static stretch and glue has a larger sweet spot, those softened corners on a Newman does reduce the sweet spot where tension, thread orientation are smaller than a static of the same size.

2. Tensions:  We stretch to 22-24 newtons on S mesh.  This is due more to textile shops not handling screens with care than the ability of the stretcher or mesh to reach a higher tension.  Highly recommend rolling racks and carts to transport screens.  Grabbing them two at a time and dropping them to the floor by the press is tough on highly tensioned S mesh.  The following mesh guide shows the tension range.  Stretching to maximum tension creates issues for textile shops where they are leaning against the wall or piled into a sink and handled poorly.

http://www.murakamiscreen.com/documents/MeshGuidefromCatalogweb.pdf

3. Frames - We overbuild our static frames.  They are capable of 40 newton tensions.  For those that like high tension go with T or HD mesh.  Trying to get high tension with S mesh is not advised.  However S mesh does not need high tensions to print well.  Newmans are a great tool, retensioning of mesh does help, but there is a cost advantage to statics.

4. Not all mesh is the same:  Murakami/Nittoku uses a proprietary low elongation thread that retains tension.  In our lab I have 150S screens from the video I posted on this mesh that were stretched to 24 newtons and still read 22 newtons and these screens are now 2 years old.  If some are seeing a drop from 22 to 15 on Murakami mesh I'd like to know about it.  We may want to go to 26-28n, but again, handling is key.  Most textile shops don't use rolling rack, single screen reclaim processes. I like to use the analogy of washing dishes as a kid, would your Mom let you throw the dishes into the sink?  Yet I see brutal treatment of S mesh screens in reclaiming in a lot of textile shops. 

5. I could go on, but if you want to know more about Murakami S Mesh, here are some articles we have on the subject.  If you want a quote on static frames either restretched or new on our frames just give us a call.  You can specify the tension you want in the tension range, we chose one that preserves the mesh when screens are banged around.

http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Power-of-S-Mesh-1.pdf

http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Stretching-S-and-LX-Meshes.pdf

http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/May-2010-Thin-Thread-Newsletter1.pdf

Alan Buffington
800-562-3534 ext118

[jsheridan]

You can peddle it as the latest and greatest device to ever hit the market..

You can stretch it with NASA rated equipment made from titanium and powered by the wind, sun or gravitational pull

but it's still.. a.. static.. frame that loses tension. every. time. you. print. it.. 

[alan802]

I'm still documenting our tension levels on the 5 S thread statics I bought at the beginning of this thread and they have all settled in at 19 to 20 newtons and they seem to be work-hardened and haven't lost any additional tension in the last few times I've measured.  These statics with S thread are far superior to most other statics I've gotten over the years (I won't mention the suppliers but I've had at least 6 different statics) in retaining higher tensions and also printability.  The only other statics I've bought that have retained any type of working tension (above 18 newtons) were the ones I got from Xenon.  The Xenon 110's and 125's I got are still holding low 20's in tension which is far better than I expected.  But with the standard mesh counts along with low 20's tension they don't compare to the Murakami S thread screens and certainly not a roller frame outfitted with S thread.  The Murakami frames "seem" better built than ALL the others I've used and they are thicker and slightly heavier.

I'll never make a move to static frames versus retensionables but for those shops who want something better and can't/won't go with retens can make significant improvements to their entire operation with S thread statics.  I believe guys when they say they can put out high quality prints through a 16 newton set of screens because I've done it too, but when it comes to setting them up and knocking the job out along with high quality nothing will ever beat a retensionable w/thin thread when it comes to printing plastisol.

[GaryG]

Alan and Alan,

Stretching some 150 LX now and am wondering if any "Registration" issues arise
with it (white UB) at only say 20N and other meshes at 30-35N within same design?

What are your Alan and Alan (or others that have had tension gaps like this) thoughts on this?

Thx!

[starchild]

As long as all screens have mesh that is balanced, the only thing that should need addressing for different tensions is off contact.. But also consider that though the thread diameter stays the same, the mesh opening enlarge as the mesh elongate and tension goes up.

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[tonypep]

I'm still documenting our tension levels on the 5 S thread statics I bought at the beginning of this thread and they have all settled in at 19 to 20 newtons and they seem to be work-hardened and haven't lost any additional tension in the last few times I've measured.  These statics with S thread are far superior to most other statics I've gotten over the years (I won't mention the suppliers but I've had at least 6 different statics) in retaining higher tensions and also printability.  The only other statics I've bought that have retained any type of working tension (above 18 newtons) were the ones I got from Xenon.  The Xenon 110's and 125's I got are still holding low 20's in tension which is far better than I expected.  But with the standard mesh counts along with low 20's tension they don't compare to the Murakami S thread screens and certainly not a roller frame outfitted with S thread.  The Murakami frames "seem" better built than ALL the others I've used and they are thicker and slightly heavier.

I'll never make a move to static frames versus retensionables but for those shops who want something better and can't/won't go with retens can make significant improvements to their entire operation with S thread statics.  I believe guys when they say they can put out high quality prints through a 16 newton set of screens because I've done it too, but when it comes to setting them up and knocking the job out along with high quality nothing will ever beat a retensionable w/thin thread when it comes to printing plastisol.

Hate plastisol, love statics

[alan802]

Alan and Alan,

Stretching some 150 LX now and am wondering if any "Registration" issues arise
with it (white UB) at only say 20N and other meshes at 30-35N within same design?

What are your Alan and Alan (or others that have had tension gaps like this) thoughts on this?

Thx!

I know some really good printers are very adamant about having a multi-colored job having close to the same tension levels for all the colors but back when I was in my "super high tension phase" we had screens at 60 newtons and as low as 20 newtons and often jobs with 4 colors having tension levels from 20 to 60 and never had any regi issues that were noticeable.  That was back when I was on the press too and I was looking for that since I had read that they needed to be all around the same tension level.  I don't know if the fact that our press was very tightly calibrated at that time or if some other parameter played a role but we didn't have any issues with it.  Most of our screens are 22-28 newtons right now and there is no regi issues to speak of but I wouldn't expect there to be.

[ABuffington]

Static frames with S mesh from Murakami do hit a work hardened tension level.  Not all thread and mesh are the same.  Chinese Mesh on a static can't be compared to a Static Frame with Murakami Mesh.  This isnt and either or situation.  Both the Newman, and a static with our mesh will have great print qualities.  I just find set up easier with statics on an M&R, they stay flat, no labor retension needed, larger sweet spot on the same size frame.  Tension is mesh specific.  Registration loss is a product of a screen losing tension during the print.  As mentioned I have a set here that is a sim process design that I made 2 years ago that I still use for demos.  Dot on Dot register still, no base poking out, crisp details.

Alan

[ABuffington]

Mr Sheridan, since you are in my area, I can come down and show you.  Seeing is believing.  Somewhat amazed that a pile of golden poo is how you view statics. Lets do a demo with my screens and then decide.  Not all statics are the same and I would agree that a lot of statics being sold nowadays under perform compared to a Newman.  If you have the time to retension great, most companies I visit throughout the world don't retension much any longer.

Alan
Murakami Screen USA

[tonypep]

While most here do I would agree with Alan B that most companies never work harden rollers. I've been in a whole lot of shops and it is rare.

[ebscreen]

Hate plastisol, love statics

Can I get a shirt that says this?

[shurloc]

Something that is overlooked when working with Rollers vs. Square Tube Frames is corner size. When you look at a static frame, the dual directional support of the mesh goes all the way from corner to corner. There is no single support thread line. With our EZ Frame, the single thread support line is about a half an inch inward from the ID of the frame. When you look at a roller frame, say a 23x31 M3 for example, you have a 15x23 area that is supported by dual threads. Any are outside of that is only pulled in "one direction" by the tube that is applying force to it. These "single thread" areas won't harden, they will just keep losing tension slowly and require retentioning often.

Work hardening a roller frame would be nearly impossible. Even with the best mesh on the planet (and yes Alan, I like your product the best) and even with our precut fabric panels, there is no way to stabilize the mesh when only the warp or weft direction is under pressure. You might only lose a Newton or two a week or month, but it won't stabilize. Eventually, you will need to loosen and retighten that mesh. At least that's what all of our testing has shown.