Pre-mixed Matsui Black [something better out there?]

[mimosatexas]

I have been using what my supplier labelled as Matsui Process Black, which I am assuming is the same as the 301 black.  I have read other peoples opinions on the Matsui RFU Black and they all seem to love it, but I have not seen good results, even when I add extra black pigment into the pre-mix (annoying).  I add fixer and fully cure, but it typically dulls dramatically with the first wash, and shows a bit of shirt color fibration.  I also have a lot of issues with any kind of overlap with other inks.  If I have halftones going over any other colors, it will dull and gray a bit, no matter what I do.  I realize with waterbased you arent supposed to print on top of other colors typically, but there has to be a better black out there that can actually retain opacity when necessary.

I typically end up using a thin plastisol black instead unless the design is only black and on a very bright color and has little detail, otherwise it just looks dull.  Obviously this hurts the hand and adds a bit of glare unless an additive is added to the ink.     

Does anyone have a go to waterbased black?  Am I somehow using the wrong Matsui black?  Any thoughts?

[ebscreen]

Wrong black. The Matsui black we've used in the past was darker than a black hole. Sounds like your process black
is exactly that, a process black. Transparent for better blending. We overprint wB all the time, it's one of the huge
benefits to it.

Currently mixing our own black with Rutland pigment and CCI base. If someone comes out with a RFU black that
is worth a damn and not $75 a gallon we'll be all over it.

[tonypep]

I've mentioned before that we used to make our own for about $3.00 per gallon using a homogenizer and about 4 ingredients mixed in a specific order.. Black WB/PCs are cheap.

[mimosatexas]

Care to link to the RIGHT black?  Thanks!

[ebscreen]

it's the Matsui Spot Black is my memory serves me right.

[brandon]

Actually its called Jet Black and that is a very good description

[mimosatexas]

someone link to a place I can buy it.  I am not finding Jet black matsui on any sites...

[tpitman]

It's the spot black you want. Much different from the process. Tends to be harder to wash the image out of the screen, but it is black . . .

[ebscreen]

I think Westar Solutions is where we got ours.

[brandon]

Matsui sells it directly. Or they used to at least. I have never seen any distros offer it at least while it was called Jet Black. Maybe they do now. Sorry, been a few years

[tpitman]

I think Westar Solutions is where we got ours.

I think they're out of business.

Here's the formula for spot black if you've got base and pigments:

90.9% Clear 301C
9.10 Neo Black MK

[ebscreen]

Ach, brain no worky today. Atlas Screen Supply.

Gotta watch pigment load with black, it turns into cottage cheese if you go too far...

[ZooCity]

Westar Solutions is in business, new website even, but they don't carry Matsui. 

We've settled on either Jantex Black for 100% cotton or WOW situations or CCI Spot Black for the rest.  The CCI is actually a very high quality, wash durable ink but it has major WOW issues- I've seen it delaminate the next stencil down over 1k prints or so from sticking and pulling on the emulsion, didn't even know that was possible prior to witnessing that.  The first bucket of CCI Spot that I got in here was almost a no go, but we turned it around by adding retarder to our wb textile ink for the fist time ever, which I hate doing.  The last few gallons were better for sure, not seeing the dry-in issues we saw on round 1, no longer retarding it. 

The Jantex doesn't perform quite as well across a variety of fabrics like blends and such but performs well WOW and is very affordable.   

Anyways, that's my experience after checking out a lot of printing and 20+ cycle wash/dry testing on a variety of fabric.  {Which, by the way, watch out for wb blacks on neons!} Haven't tried the Matsui Jet/Spot yet, but am pretty happy with where we're at.  I used the Matsui 301 Black in the past, which I thought was their spot black but maybe not?  It fibrilated after wash testing, not completely unacceptable but not as good as the aforementioned.

[tpitman]

Oops. WESTIX, not Westar.

[inkbrigade]

Kind of off topic but we like westar as a distributor