CCI pigments

[Rockers]

I`m wondering if the CCI pigments can be used as well with any other discharge base. Can`t see us always shipping gallons of base from the States to Japan, too expensive especially as I can get Matsui base for next to nothing here. I do like the CCI pigments though as they work so well for color matching. If they would work OK with the Matsui base that would be great. has anyone tried them with a different base?

[screenprintguy]

We used them with sericol base ans magna and worked just fine. I will say the magna pigments are way way better. You use a lot less pigment in a mix as they are far more concentrated. And ver very accurate on pms matching, and also work in any basr.

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Screenprintguy, have you directly compared Magna Pigments to CCI's in YOUR shop? I assumed you have by reading this thread's only post by you so far, but I admit I haven't looked back

I use CCI's Waterbased and Discharge Pigments (and their computer program) but I dislike how MUCH pigment is required.  They just seem "weaker" than when I used Matsui's pigments, often requiring boosting to 15% pigment loadings.  Other than that, I like them ok.

Rockers, I haven't seen any compatibility problems with using CCI's Discharge pigments in the Matsui Bases, but I haven't done all that much of it. I have only done it a few times with discharge, but not just waterbased. I'd say it's worth a try, being you have access to Matsui's bases for cheap. I'd use them myself, except they dry out a little faster in an all manual shop...and I can't buy them easily or economically any more.

Good luck!
Stan

[screenprintguy]

Yes, we've been working with both over the past few months. Even though you can hit pantones pretty dead on with the CCI pigments. I'm not happy with the amount you have to use to create a color, it just doesn't compute cost wise. Example, Friday we mixed up a bunch of different pms colors for a customer using the CCI pigments, "since we need to burn through what we bought". What I did was make the color, then only activate an amount we thought needed for the job to conserve. They were a bunch of small 36-48 piece runs different color inks. So in one mix, making a pms 308, it required, 112 grams of process blue, that's about 30% of the container of pigment for one color, that is way ridiculous for the amount of discharge printing we are now doing. Same color using the magna colour system uses about 20 or so grams of process blue pigment, they are way more concentrated. Both systems make a perfect pms color, whether you get that in your run or not depends on the garment you are discharging, but for use, once we burn through the CCI pigments we have we will be using the magna colour pigment system from now on. If CCI changes their pigment concentration, I would love to use it since I really like their products, but for now, when mixing 1-2 quart color batches, it's way too expensive vs a higher concentrate pigment like magna. Matsui has very high concentrate pigments too, but they are slacking off with a lack of mixing software to hit pantones. It's too much of a pain and un-reliable to create proper colors using that matsui method, for us anyway.

[Gilligan]

Haven't even used a pigment system but just looking at the CCI kit that I do have, I have to agree.

Just to make a pint of black it will take like 1/10th of my bottle of black pigment... and that is just according to the recipe... not any extra loading or anything.

[CCI TECH]

We make the pigments at the 10% ratio so that at smaller ink amounts you can hit the color without having a $2000 scale for .000 amounts. We do this to make it easier to hit the color. We only use the boost of 15% with the shirts that don't discharge well. We only put that into the system for problem shirts. We are looking at a new thicker set of pigments for sometime in 2014 so stay turned.

In regards to the mixing with other bases issue like Matsui or Magna, there should be no issue. But we always recommend that you test it before you do a long run.  I hope this helped

[Nick Bane]

Nice to see CCI jump in here! Good work!

and my CCI rep Jaime Fernandez is Awesome!

[screenprintguy]

I second that Nick, our rep Robert Luca, has been awesome. Introduced me to our favorite emulsion for water base and discharge printing, HXT blue, and our fave discharge base and D-white, not to mention the pre-mix Flo colors!

[dirkdiggler]

CCI does require a lot more pigment, but its almost half the cost of Magna.  So it almost evens out.  And the CCI base is crazy cheap!  Both work, I have both in my shop.

[ZooCity]

CCI does require a lot more pigment, but its almost half the cost of Magna.  So it almost evens out.  And the CCI base is crazy cheap!  Both work, I have both in my shop.

Yep, I agree.  Only thing is, the watery CCI pigs may yield a runnier ink than you wanted when loading at higher %'s.  I think they could be a little more concentrated though, we purchase by the gallon typically, pour our gallons of pig into quarts for easier handling, pour off the qt.'s early in a mix, then finish with the squeezy bottle.  If you just used those pint bottles they would be empty in a couple of mixes.  We have one of those 2k scales but it does only go to tenths so I appreciate the notion of using less concentrated pigs. 

Rockers, you should be fine mixing CCI pigs with another base but I gotta say CCI has a great base in D-Base Premium.

Off topic- does anyone actually mix CCI DC formulas at 10%?  All ours our at 20%, nothing at 10% has looked strong and vivid.   

[CCI TECH]

Thanks guys for the feed back. Things with the pigment do vary do to the color of the shirt. Some will be more grey in color of the shirt color and you will have to boost or increase. Overall we are seeing 10 to 15% to be the norm on formula. Against the Magna we are 60% less expensive, so look at that when you compare apples to apples. We are working on a pigment system that is twice the concentration and thicker in nature. We are shooting for a launch for for the ISS show in Long Beach but not sure yet. We thank you all of you for the business and hope to see you all at the ISS Long Beach booth 1450.

[screenprintguy]

CCI TECH, question for ya. Are the Pigments available in larger size containers than the, I belive 8 oz squirt bottles? And where are they available for FLorida customers. Thanks man!

Mike

[dirkdiggler]

Mike I gave your info to my rep Gary Fox and he does North Florida, but not central, he said he would pass it along to your rep.

[ZooCity]

Yeah Mike you can get quarts and gallons direct.

CCITECH - that sounds great, about 2x concentrated from current would be a good balance I think.  Also, fix the white pig, it's unusable in it's current state with pigment chunks drying.  Or, you could build using D-White as a mixing white into the formulas.  That's what we're doing here but it takes a bunch of math. 

[Itsa Little CrOoked]

Yeah Mike you can get quarts and gallons direct.

CCITECH - that sounds great, about 2x concentrated from current would be a good balance I think.  Also, fix the white pig, it's unusable in it's current state with pigment chunks drying.  Or, you could build using D-White as a mixing white into the formulas.  That's what we're doing here but it takes a bunch of math.

Chunks...oh yeah. What a mess!

I too have used D-White instead of the mixing white. Accuracy is a problem though. It DOES solve the chunks issue. At least for us it does